USNA QB Charged with rape

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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Zaphod, that attitude reflects exactly why the academies and society are NOT what they were 15 years ago. Times have changed and thats not all bad.

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<p>Change is often good, but not all of it is. My attitude is a lot older than 15 years, and was once appreciated by women for what it is: a concern for them.</p>

<p>Nowadays, it gets you called a sexist.</p>

<p>So be it.</p>

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This isn't the result of "modern feminism" whatever the heck THAT is -- its just recognizing whats wrong and doing whats right.

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<p>BS. Most of what we now consider "progress" has been brought about by a bunch of malcontents who made a bunch of noise when THEY couldn't get what they wanted, no matter how nonsensical it was.</p>

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Nations don't go to war to protect their women and children---war is an instrument of national policy and national self defense.

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<p>Done to protect the men, women, and children of that nation.</p>

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By the way, in today's world, a gentlemen is one who treats others with respect (men and women). He opens doors for both ladies and other gentlemen. He understands that just because he opens one door for a woman doesn't give him the right to close another.

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<p>Oh, what a beautiful-sounding yet completely EMPTY "modern" definition for what a gentleman is!</p>

<p>I'll tell you what a gentleman is: It is a man who gets run over by the approaching train while trying to free a woman he's never met trapped on the tracks, despite the opportunity to save himself. To quote Robert A. Heinlein, "That is how a MAN dies. That is how a man LIVES!"</p>

<p>Sadly, I'd get less crap from men these days for opening a door for them than from women. I had one wench flip out on me once for opening a door for her. "I'm quite capable of opening it myself!". "Fine", I said, then slammed it in her face. THAT is modern feminism.</p>

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It would be nice for each of us to live in a world where all of our societal "norms" are obeyed, but in the real world women are just as smart, just as savy, and deserve just as much opportunity to serve their nation in combat (or not) as men.

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<p>Please go back and identify for me anything I have said to the contrary. </p>

<p>Go on. I'll be here waiting....</p>

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Heck, maybe if it weren't only men doing most of the fighting and dying mankind might find a way to do less of it.

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<p>I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that women are of a different value than men, and as such might tip the equation?</p>

<p>How SEXIST of you! :rolleyes:</p>

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History in respect of the absolute need for women to carry forward a generation is in flux and that "definition" for society survival will stand not much longer, like it or not. Science is changing this perspective as we speak and it is only a matter of time until "gender" as we historically know it, will not matter in terms of civilization survival. Societal pressures to "equalize" women's (and same sex partners') role in society to that of men will certainly hasten this eventuality.

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<p>Oh, WONDERFUL!</p>

<p>The artificial womb! </p>

<p>How much you want to bet that it will be MEN who are called "unnecessary" in such an event?</p>

<p>It's already happened. A recent study supposedly showed how the male half of DNA can be artificially taken from women, therefore, what do we need men for? :rolleyes:</p>

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In an earlier post you mention that you have two young daughters. What are your thoughts if in a few years they desire to attend the USNA?

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<p>I've already answered this. I would be extremely proud, but it's THEIR choise to attend or not to.</p>

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Based on your experience as a male in the academy what advice would you give them?

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<p>Don't act like you're anything special or expect special favors because you're a woman. The most popular and most respected women at the Academy (and out in the fleet, for that matter) were invariably the ones who never complained and did it just as good, if not better, than was expected. They were also the ones not caught up with being a woman.</p>

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What are the do's and don'ts of living among >3000 men for 4 years?

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<p>Carry yourself like a woman and a professional. Simple, really.</p>

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What area of service selection do most women choose?

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<p>This has changed radically since my day, but even then they selected SWO, Aviation, USMC, the works.</p>

<p>Of course, THEY could select the restricted line jobs, but the men could only pick COMBAT roles. We were discussing equality, eh? Funny how "equality" only seems to go in one direction. I don't remember the feminist mob demanding that they be included in the draft last time around. :rolleyes:</p>

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Do you feel some areas of service are better than others for women? If so, please elaborate.

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<p>"Better"? No.</p>

<p>I have one and only one concern: I do not want to see women blasted to shreds on a battlefield or tortured in a POW camp. Period.</p>

<p>So I'm old-fashioned. So I'm a wimp for the tears of a woman. So I agree with President Reagan that the future of the human race passes through the womb of the woman (a profoundly complimentary statement for which he was excoriated by a bunch of hags no self-respecting man would be caught dead in the same room with). </p>

<p>You know, 15-year-old kids are perfectly capable of fighting wars. I don't want them to do it, either.</p>

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Yikes...where is this discussion headed. Geena Davis for President!!!!

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<p>Condi Rice! :D</p>

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<p>Zaphod
You are the best!!</p>

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<p><--- embarassed.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>The purpose of my anecdote was to point out, as Zaphod said, that there are a very few who make the rest of us women look bad. I intended it to be a small lesson to future women officers about how important it is to conduct yourself in a way that does not invite crap. I intended to express that women who act like my former shipmate do harm not just to themselves, but to all of us women who wish to serve and enjoy the same respect as our male peers. Something to consider.</p>

<p>Yes, I know that conducting yourself properly is no guarantee that you will be treated properly in return. In my experience, it sure did help, though. That's it.</p>

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<p>You'll get no argument from me on that one, Mom! ;)</p>

<p>What's supposed to have happened at USNA makes no sense. None.</p>

<p>Very sad. :(</p>

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<p>Zaphod...I have followed your posts for quite sometime... just want to let you know that I thank you for your service to our nation and YOU are my hero :)</p>

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<p>Zaphod........I also thank you.</p>

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<p>You're very welcome. :o</p>

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<p>It would be nice for each of us to live in a world where all of our societal "norms" are obeyed, but in the real world women are just as smart, just as savy, and deserve just as much opportunity to serve their nation in combat (or not) as men. </p>

<p>"Please go back and identify for me anything I have said to the contrary. </p>

<p>Go on. I'll be here waiting...."</p>

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<p>You also said that "Most of what we now consider "progress" has been brought about by a bunch of malcontents who made a bunch of noise when THEY couldn't get what they wanted, no matter how nonsensical it was."</p>

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<p>Your earlier post to the poster who expressed concern about attending an academy that has had issues in the past really set me off. Your comment to her "Sweetheart, try disengaging your emotions and engaging YOUR BRAIN" and "Get over it. Stop acting like a chld and start acting like the WOMAN you need to be" was way off base---in fact, if that comment were made in the workplace today it would violate a number of harassment rules, whether you personally agree with them or not and certainly would get a cadet in trouble if he/she spoke them in public today at the academy. One thing that has changed is that cadets at USMA (I assume at the other academies as well) receive instruction about behavior like that. Nothing she posted warranted that kind of sexest and insulting reaction from you. </p>

<p>Its unfortunate that still in todays world at the academies for women to be accepted by some they need to be almost perfect. I know I got letters from my D during Beast last summer that one of her greatest motivations while being there was not to fail at anything because if she did her squad mates would assume it was because she was a woman--despite the fact that a lot of guys did fail. Reminds me of the stories about the first African Americans to attend WP in the late 1800's or to fly bomber escort aircraft in WW2. Some of the crap they went through seems to still be sticking around. I think it gets better every year but things still move slowly. Our daughters have the right to attend the academies and serve their country because of feminist "malcontents." </p>

<p>I hope the midshipman is innocent, but protecting the identity of the accuser is vital given the fact that many women will not step forward without that confidentiality. In the end, finding the truth is the only honorable outcome for any of the academies.</p>

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<p>was it sexist because he called her a sweetheart or what cause i don't see it as being sexist by telling her to act like a woman. </p>

<p>if the victim should get to keep her identity secret then they should not release the name of the suspect either because his name is being irreversibly trashed on what could be a false accusation.</p>

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<p>Gina Davis? Rice? Nah, its going to be Hillary!! ;)</p>

<p>heyitsme- would have to agree with both points you raise (in post #39), except I wish BOTH parties would remain nameless until guilt is proven, rather than releasing both.</p>

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<p>Can you remember Koby Bryant.........</p>

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<p>heyitsme....when you become familiar with the sexual harassment rules of today's companies and government organizations you will see that if those comments were made in the workplace they would be in violation of policy, whether "some" present thought it was a violation or not.</p>

<p>I would assume that the suspects name is being released because the academy has enough evidence to charge him with a crime. Part of the reason they release his name is to protect his constitutional rights. Our nation is not usually in the habit of charging its citizens in private.
The reason the accusers name is not released is because of the reality that many of these crimes would go unreported because of the stigma attached by society to any kind of sexually related crime. Iam sure the lawyers on this board could site historical facts relating to the accuser in a rape trial being "put on trial" herself because society assumed "she must have asked for it."--Kobe Bryant case in point.</p>

<p>The facts will eventually come out. Given that the alledged assault happened a month ago I would assume the investigation has been ongoing and provided enough evidence to make a charge.</p>

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<p>shogun- funny, even though found "innocent," I still do not look at Kobe Bryant in quite the same way.</p>

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"These charges are accusations, and Midshipman Owens is presumed innocent until proven otherwise," academy spokesman Cmdr. Rod Gibbons said.

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<p>Even if found innocent, I doubt people will ever look at Owens in quite the same way either.</p>

<p>Until guilt is proven, names should not be broadcast over every media form- TV, sports magazines, internet, etc,etc, etc.....our consititution does presume innocence.</p>

<p>On the other hand, find him guilty? Then by all means have him castrated. </p>

<p>And, if for some reason the charges are found to be without merrit, then I hope they bring his acusor up for court marshall.</p>

<p>This is in no way stating that victums don't need support and protection- for they surely do - but so do those "presumed innocent." I agree that everyone needs to take a step back and let the system sort it out.</p>

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<p>Kobe Bryant wasn't found "innocent"---the case was dismissed after a "circus" of a trial in which information that was supposed to be kept confidential kept being leaked.</p>

<p>"As the hearings went on, it became clear that Bryant's defense team's strategy was going to be to aggressively attack <the accuser's=""> credibility. Various media reports about evidence that Bryant's defense was planning to present caused widespread speculation that the prosecution chances of overcoming reasonable doubt and obtaining a conviction were dwindling. Amid both such speculation and the intense scrutiny of her personal life, <the accuser=""> decided to withdraw her support of the criminal prosecution and refused to testify. This drove a final nail into the coffin of the criminal case against Bryant, and prosecutors agreed to dismiss the case against him. As part of the overall agreement, Bryant issued a statement in which he continued to assert that he believed his encounter with Faber to be consensual, but acknowledged that Faber "did not and does not view this incident the same way that I did."</the></the></p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>point well taken</p>

<p>HAD the media not tried him in the court of public opinion, and made such a public spectacle of the whole thing, perhaps justice would have been better served, guilty or innocent. We will never know; the stigma, however, will remain like a scarlet letter.</p>

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"...Stop acting like a chld and start acting like the WOMAN you need to be" was way off base---in fact, if that comment were made in the workplace today it would violate a number of harassment rules, whether you personally agree with them or not and certainly would get a cadet in trouble if he/she spoke them in public today at the academy.

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The sad part is...if you changed the quote to "Stop acting like a chld and start acting like the MAN you need to be", no one would take offense! So who is sexist here????</p>