<p>Standards are tougher for officers, even though all must complete the same training. Officers must score higher on academic tests than enlisted BUD/S trainees, and are required to LEAD their boat crew, not just go along for the ride. Additionally, the class leader, his officers, and the LPO have to complete all the admin work that goes along with being an officer or senior ranking enlisted sailor, to include organizing the class and ensuring that all equipment is prepared for the next day, as well as watchstanding.
As someone mentioned, Dick Couch's book Warrior Elite is a great read for anyone interested in entering the Navy Spec War community...pretty much all your questions will be answered by reading that book.</p>
<p>I've read Dick Couch's book and think it is definitely worth the read. </p>
<p>Another book I would recommend is Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell. VERY interesting to read what that SEAL went through to survive his mission in Afghanistan. Also, a good portion of the book is spent on his experiences at BUD/S. </p>
<p>Has anyone else read Lone Survivor?</p>
<p>I have...concur with your assessment. Good read just for the sake of reading something interesting about a little-known operation and the heroism shown.<br>
Did you happen to notice that Luttrell was a member of the BUD/S class featured in Couch's book? Interesting coincidence...</p>
<p>Very interesting, I did not notice. Read Mr. Couch's book last year sometime and then Lone Survivor last week so there was considerable time between the two. Now that you mention that it is the same BUD/S class, I might re-read Mr. Couch's book to see what he says about Marcus/the class in general. How it relates to what Marcus said would be interesting to see.</p>
<p>I have read both Lone Survivor and The Warrior Elite. Dick Couch also has another SEAL book called "The finishing school" which is about after BUD/S. I haven't read it, but I have it...just in my queue of books to read :)</p>
<p>I think Luttrell goes on a tangent sometimes with his book Lone Survivor--he always seems to mention something negative about "liberals" every 4-5 pages. I can't blame him though! Great book to read. Felt very sad for those people who ended up dying, especially the SEALs and Nightstalkers who were trying to rescue them when they were in distress. The book definitely gets you angry sometimes when you read Luttrell's truthful point about liberals.</p>
<p>Yes, I got Lone Survivor this past Christmas, and I must say that it is in my top 10 in terms of favorite books. I actually enjoyed how he frequently interjected his political views into it (haha). But seriously, I thought it was a great book that showed the mindset of many of our troops serving, and it also made me infinitely more grateful for those who are overseas right now. SEALs really are bad***. Awesome book.</p>
<p>The competition never ends for us does it? Haha</p>
<p>I'm just ready to get to USNA and start working with/competing with my Prospective SEALs.</p>
<p>The Finishing School is great to read because it covers SQT which is a lot more uncommon to hear about as opposed to BUD/s.</p>
<p>fiterace87 nails the answer to the question about what Special Forces Officers deal with. Our young Ensign in SEAL training shares with us that the bar is always harder for the officers - and they carry the responsiblity of leadership NOT as masters, but as servants. They have, in this culture - the same mentality that one finds among Marine Officers. </p>
<p>Wanna know the difference between a Naval Officer and a Marine Officer? Naval Officers eat first. Marine Officers eat Last. SEAL Officers eat last as well. During days and days of the training evolutions - our Ensign didn't get to eat at all - since the enlisted trainees got into the chow line first - and with minutes, even seconds to wolf down anything...the Officers at the end of the line frequently missed out on anything. That's just the way it's meant to be.</p>
<p>I have read Lone Survivor - and I have seen many videos of him in public appearances. Maybe it's just because I'm a woman, and a mother - but I look in the eyes of this American hero - and I see that same look that sometimes one sees in others who have suffered greatly in war...I've seen it in WW2 vets, some Vietnam vets...and even the face of a dear young man who in Army Nat'l Guard spent 12 months in Iraq in 2004. A far-away moment of memory, pain and most especially loss, that crosses their facial features and stays in their eyes.</p>
<p>Marcus Lutrell just completed part of a national tour in support of current war actions - something he didn't have to do as a civilian now. But that deep, deep heart of always wanting to serve, always wanting to help his buddies, always willing to be the warrior regardless of the personal pain...is what makes me respect and honor this great American.</p>
<p>peskemom: "Wanna know the difference between a Naval Officer and a Marine Officer? Naval Officers eat first. Marine Officers eat Last. SEAL Officers eat last as well."</p>
<p>Where did you get this information. I was a career Naval Officer and I take offence with your above comment. We took care of the men and women entrusted to us just like the Marines. Hopefully, this was meant to be a sacastic comment. By the way, last time I checked Seal Officers were Naval Officers first.</p>
<p>As far as getting SEALs out of the Academy goes, grades definitely can help you out, but I'd say that they are close to the bottom of totem pole on what gets you SEALs.... The biggest factor on getting the SEAL spot is how you do with the selection process. The selection process for SEALs at the Academy is by far the longest and toughest road. Between the number of screeners, summer cruises, and regular SEAL pt sessions, the guys who end up getting the spot usually rise to the top. I had two friends in my company get SEALs last year. Both were extremely highly motivated, worked hard, worked out constantly, and were definitely well respected by their peers. However, neither had stellar grades... That being said, I'm not stating that grades don't matter, however, you shouldn't be discouraged that you won't get the SEAL spot because you may not have a top notch GPA...</p>
<p>grad/dad...didn't mean to offend or slur anyone...it's a saying I have heard for 30+ years amongst military folk - usually just a light-hearted way of poking fun at one another. Of course there are servant/leaders in the Navy! I can make amends by shipping you a box of my cookies if that helps. Thank you for your service to our country</p>
<p>Is it true that unlike enlisted men who can be rolled back or reapply, officers who are dropped for any reason (injury, DOR, etc.) are sent to the Fleet and cannot be rolled back to another class?</p>
<p>Yes this is true. Officers get one chance if they DOR, but they can be rolled back if they're injured. Enlisted get one more chance after they DOR, but I'm not positive about this one.</p>
<p>Enlisted can actually come back to BUD/S multiple times. In Mr. Couch's book, there is a guy in the class that had completed three Hell Weeks before finally making it through BUD/S. Officers are occasionally rolled back due to injury (depends on the nature of the injury and their performance), but more often than not they are simply dropped from the program, no questions asked...
Once an officer DORs he will never come back to BUD/S unless he resigns his commission and enlists (and this has happened before).</p>
<p>What is a DOR?</p>
<p>If you are dropped, are your later opportunities limited? Would Nuclear Power School be a possibility or submarines? The Ensign who went to flight school afterwards definitely paints a picture, but I'm curious about specifics.</p>
<p>DOR = Drop on Request. You quit.</p>
<p>I can't really speak on what happens after officers are dropped. It seems that SWO is most common, but I'm sure that anything is possible. Just because somebody can't complete BUD/S doesn't mean that they are a failure, it just means that being a SEAL isn't in the cards...they'll go on to make great officers elsewhere.</p>
<p>I'm a SEAL wife and your post caught my eye. I passed your question along to my husband and will paste his reply.</p>
<p>I am an active duty SEAL officer with some experience in this realm. Here's what I understand the board to be looking for:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Great PSTs: runs and swims in the 9's, 8's are better
20 pull ups, 100 sit ups, 100 push ups</p></li>
<li><p>Proven leader
Captain of a varsity sport is best but they want to see that you've taken all leadership opportunities</p></li>
<li><p>Grades are considered, languages are a plus</p></li>
</ol>
<p>He said these are in order of importance and that PT sessions are important and considered (unless it gets in the way of being captain of the swim team)
He also said to run, run, run and get fast. Same for swimming. Good luck and we'll see you when you get here!</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you are dropped, are your later opportunities limited? Would Nuclear Power School be a possibility or submarines? The Ensign who went to flight school afterwards definitely paints a picture, but I'm curious about specifics.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Anything is a possibility, however specifics will be hard to come by. If you DOR from aviation, spec war, or nuke, you can go into both restricted and unrestricted lines. Once graduation day comes, your no longer held to the unrestricted line, so anything that happens after that opens up a lot more choices. That being said though, what you get depends completely on timing. You can put in preferences, but if they don't need what you put down, then your probably gonna get sent straight to the boat. From what I saw with classmates of mine that DORed, everyone who dropped early in the fiscal year all got their first choices, mostly supply or intel. Recently though, most everyone has been getting sent swo regardless of whether or not they put it down.</p>