<p>and im saying youre wrong. obviously my math background helps and is a selling point on interviews i.e. i work harder in school takin grad courses in courant and overloading on credits. buts its just school. you show up, do problems sets take finals. now someone is paying for you to do something. a huge part of banking is personality. being somewhere TEDIOUS for 100 hours a week. getting stacks of papers thrown at you. Honestly, I've been in both worlds. Ive takin stochastic calculus alongside the harvard, IIT guys and ive sat around til late doing a damn comp and working on a deal sheet. its not difficulty, it just really really sucks. just incomparable. but i agree to some extent, engineering (if youre actually doing well, there are moron who do math/physics/engineering) means youre prob smart and hard working. but there are alot of people like that and much of ibanking isnt intelligence and no one in college has really tested their limits to the fullest extent. i dont even know your point, you think you can handle it, good for you, now go do it. you know what it takes and if you say what you have youre set. it seems your biggest problem will be your attitude. judging by the 20, seems like your time for summer analyst is coming up. good luck, nothing to prove to me, i dont know you.</p>
<p>oh and i said nothing about stress. the stress of a trading floor is nothing youll ever understand until you step on it, youre full of **** otherwise. seriouslly. Its cracked out. I think its fun.</p>
<p>groucho, just outta curiuosity, whered u go to skool, and where r u now?</p>
<p>i was in stern, transferred out to do a double in math and theoretical econ (they dont let ya do a math degree in stern, unlike wharton and sloan). I'll be doing S&T full time at BofA come June.</p>
<p>is it possible to do a double in finance and statistics in stern</p>
<p>yea, 2 of my good friends are doing that. I think its a very good combination and gives a good math background, but youre limited to the Stern Stat courses and can't take the grad math dept courses. My good friend who's graduating with me doing finance stat recieved trading offers from Lehman, JP Morgan, Goldman, and Bear Stearns. He's a bit of an all star though.</p>
<p>r stern stat courses different from the college courses? did ur friend accept any offers n e where?</p>
<p>yes, they are college courses. you are in college and it is a course. jesus christ. go to the dept website to learn about it (google Stern Statistics, its crazy i know). the lowest grade they give is a B. the classes are damn easy, my math dept wont even count the courses towards my math degree. and i can't talk about what offer he took, thats his business and not mine to post all over the internet, he was just an example.</p>
<p>i can c y ur name is groucho, when i said college courses, i meant are stern statistics courses the same thing as the stats courses in the regular college, there wasnt really much need for the sarcasm,</p>
<p>theyre stern mba courses. though that may be changing soon? so i hear. you should really check the website.</p>
<p>if i want to do undergrad business at cornell....... which school do i apply to?</p>
<p>they only have an mba program at johnson. you apply to the arts and science and do a degree in either economics or applied economics and management. that or any other major.</p>
<p>undergrad business program at Cornell = Applied Economics and Management (AEM) in Agriculture and Life Sciences.</p>
<p>Groucho: </p>
<p>For thouse who don't know what "Trading" and "Investment Banking" entails, could you give a brief summary? Yes, I know we could google it - but I think it would be more beneficial to learn it from someone who's been through it all. </p>
<p>Also, do you know if any of these big businesses recruit from tech schools like CMU for internships?</p>
<p>"transferred out to do a double in math and theoretical econ"</p>
<p>Hey,</p>
<p>I'm currently a freshman in NYU CAS, and I'm doubling in math and econ (theory track). I'm currently interning at a boutique investment bank. However, I'm more of a trader type than a banker type (I trade FOREX and commodities on my own, and I grew up in the Connecticut hedge fund world). </p>
<p>My question is how helpful do you find the econ major on the trading floor? Do you think I can just get away with a minor and still have a solid grasp of the concepts (which is all I really want since everything else you learn on the job)? Math is my passion so I'm not giving up on that, but having only one tough major and a minor instead of 2 leaves more room for GPA boosting classes if I ever consider grad school down the road, and I can just take a more wide variety of sh1+. Also, any good reccs. on profs/classes?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Groucho,
Do you believe it is harder to get a trading job than a normal investment banking job? Are most trading jobs reserved for math major "quant" types? Is there anything specific investment banks look for when hiring traders?</p>
<p>no, there a majority of investment bank trading jobs are sell side trading. and its not trading, its SALEs and TRADING. i made it very clear at bofa that i would only do trading rotations and go to trading, they were cool with that, but many do a mix. very few banks hire to specific desks (goldman, smaller banks like BNP, etc). so its giant rotational crap. i think there are 2 non sternies who got trading jobs, and many of the sternies who did are 1)surprisingly dumb/incredibly smart 2) are all sorts of majors (markets, finance/statistics, finance/accting, whatever). i can't tell you what will help you on the trading floor (i hardly know myself), but from what ive experienced and from analyst friends, relatives, classmates in mathfinance who have been working, being smart helps. you pick up almost everything you need there, so you should try to build the ability to learn quick, think quick, communicate well, have an interesting personality (i dont know, go to bars more?). im econ theory also, but if you wanna boost your grade switch to econ policy and major in math. it should hedge math out. take a few courses in math finance and reg finance(undergrad mathematics of finance, a stern emerging markets with siegel (of long term capital fame), 1 or 2 grad math finance or stern mba courses). you dont need a 3.9, but a 3.5 would be good. if you want practical info, useful info for work and interviewing, read the journal every day and the economist every week. have more time? read the times every day (all sections). more time? read finance journals if you know enough math. you dont have to major in anything specific, my the economics major helps you apply to more jobs (read liars poker for the obvious why). its not true everywhere, but for alot of random desk jobs. if you dont think the math will help you (im taking financial econometrics and statistical arb right now, i highly doubt ill be using GARCH models and showing MLE I-GARCH, it helps cuz i have more background and it challenges me and keeps me thinking. my gpa has always slipped in taking 1 year worth of graduate math classes, but i never cared. this came from one of my profs, an econometrician "do you want to work in an environment that rewards laziness and punishes intellectual ambition". with that said, dont take 1 year of graduate courses, theres no reason for that and it was overkill on my part. just do what feels right. whatll help you get interviews the most will be 1) good gpa and courses and so forth 2)work experience. if youve been working in trading, youre already on a great track. interviews are focused on how smart you are and how much you know. just prove youre very smart and show you care about finance and have tried to learn alot (and that you really want to learn more) and youll do fine. blah. im kinda tired of posting on this bored, so i think im gonna stop. ha, maybe ill end up interviewing a few of you guys. hope that all helped.</p>
<p>oh and as far as banking v. trading. there are more banking jobs at the analyst level (perhaps all levels), its a very human intensive job. trading is not reserved for quant people but smart people. there are def poly sci and history majors on the floor, but there are also many math and physics, etc. people. depends on the product, depends on the person. there are many people who are very numerical and would have done great in math or whatever but pursued literature or something out of interest. as long as you have the basic natural skill, youll be fine. blah.</p>
<p>oh, since you guys are so gung ho, <a href="http://www.jungleonline.com/bankofamerica%5B/url%5D">www.jungleonline.com/bankofamerica</a> , one of my recruiters said to spread the word.</p>
<p>Groucho: Thanks a lot for your response. I was thinking about the policy track instead of the theory, but policy seems kind of, how should I say this...weak. I'm just a quant type that likes to be challenged, so it looks like I'm sticking it out with math/econ theory. I'll also take a couple Stern classes, and I'm pretty certain emerging markets w/Siegel will be one of them.</p>