<p>^Another correction: the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, in NCAA Division III, was established in 1915 by five teams (Caltech, Occidental, Whittier, Pomona, and University of Redlands) who still play in the SCIAC today. </p>
<p>Several current Division I schools -- including UCLA, UCSB, and San Diego State -- were once SCIAC members.</p>
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It's not so much why didn't some of the older schools catch on, but why some of these newer schools became so influential so quickly relative to the rest of the pack.
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<p>Geography (relative paucity of good schools nearby), good management, and lots and lots of money from their gazillionaire benefactors helped UChicago and Stanford leap to the top</p>
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<p>Well, why shouldn't Penn State join the Big Ten? Think of the characteristics that typify the Big Ten schools:</p>
<p>1) large public flagships
2) in the industrial heartland (Pittsburgh and western PA have more in common with Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown than with Philly, New York, and DC)
3) generally high quality academics (all among the top 30 publics per US News)
4) big-time sports programs, especially football.</p>
<p>From that perspective, Penn State has more in common with the other Big Ten schools than it has with the East Coast publics or any combination of East Coast publics and privates.</p>
<p>From a financial and marketing perspective, the deal also made sense for both sides. Although Penn State now has to share its football bowl revenue with the Big Ten conference, the school is probably a net gainer as it also shares the revenue of all the other bowl games Big Ten schools appear in, including the highly lucrative Rose Bowl which stills gives a preference (though no longer an automatic berth) to the Big Ten champ. The match also made for some instant high-powered, guaranteed big attendance rivalries, like Penn State-Ohio State and Penn State-Michigan. For its part, the Big Ten gains exposure and television eyeballs in some additional big Eastern markets (Philly and Pittsburgh, and to some extent even New York where the media often feature Penn State as a "regional" team). And Penn State's natural athletic recruiting base expands westward, while other Big Ten schools' natural recruiting base expands eastward. For similar reasons, the Big Ten has also had its eye on Rutgers for some time, which would wedge open the New York market.</p>
<p>I think the Penn State match with the Big Ten made a lot of sense. The only question is whether to kick out Northwestern, the obvious "goose" among this flock of ducks, so as not to have the change their name to the Big Eleven (ungainly) or to continue under the cloud of innumeracy.</p>
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Says she from the school that sticks out like a sore thumb in the Big 10
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Awwww...private, exclusive NU surrounded by a bunch of poor,welfare children? :D</p>
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The only question is whether to kick out Northwestern
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Nah, the rivalry of regional schools in a sports league is a good thing.</p>
<p>The Big Te[leve]n just needs to add Notre Dame and have a championship game. The only question then is, there is already a Big XII, what do they call themselves? :eek:</p>
<p>^ Well, if they added Notre Dame AND Rutgers, they could be the Big Thirteen. </p>
<p>Notre Dame will never do it, though. They get too much money from their exclusive national network TV football contract, and they don't want to share. Besides, they have traditional football rivalries with Boston College and USC that would be tough to keep on their schedule, not only for tradition's sake but because it gives them big market exposure on the East and West Coasts. Joining the Big Ten would, in their view, diminish their stature from the only "truly national" college football team (apart from the service academies) to just another football-crazy Midwest school and a likely perennial also-ran in their conference. Too much downside.</p>
<p>^ I agree Notre Dame would be very reluctant to join given the contracts/benefits they enjoy.</p>
<p>What would be an alternative university to join? You need 12 teams to have a championship game. With the new Big Ten network, there is incentive to expand. I would guess Iowa State or Nebraska would consider leaving the Big XII. </p>
<p>Pac-10 would need to expand as well...adding any combination of BYU, Utah and/or Colorado may happen if the current Pac-10 members wanna share revenue...If the Big Ten jumps, the Pac-10 will likely follow.</p>
<p>"Well, why shouldn't Penn State join the Big Ten? Think of the characteristics that typify the Big Ten schools"</p>
<p>Whoa there! I didn't say they were wrong to - I just merely asked why they did! </p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation, though - makes sense to me.</p>
<p>^^ I don't think either Iowa State or Nebraska would abandon the Big 12. Too many traditional rivalries. where would Nebraska be without the Oklahoma-Nebraska game. That's about all they've got for a state identity.</p>
<p>So I don't know who else. I guess it's too late to revive the University of Chicago's interest; they're too content in their nerdy intellectual, unathletic self-image, so unlike Amos Alonzo Stagg's Monster of the Midway of yore. Toronto? They'd be a project on the football front, though. Pitt? West Virginia? Buffalo? (Don't laugh, they're Div. 1A and not bad). There are a bunch of football schools in Ohio that would jump at the chance, but I don't think Ohio State would ever agree to it.</p>
<p>^ Hmmm...Nebraska has a stronger rivalry with Colorado, no? Oklahoma's main rival is Texas, not Nebraska.</p>
<p>I think if any of those schools were offered admission to the Big Ten, they'd consider it...The Big Ten is a more prestigious conference, especially academically.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don't see West Virginia or Buffalo being offered admission to the Big Ten until they increase their academic standing...For a lot of these conferences, it's not only just how good your football team is at the moment.</p>
<p>^ When I google "Nebraska Cornhuskers rivalry" about 80% of the items that come up refer to the Nebraska-Oklahoma football rivalry. Only one item in the first five pages makes reference to a Nebraska-Colorado rivalry. But you may be right about Oklahoma's main rival being Texas. These things are often asymmetrical. Michigan is Michigan State's biggest rival by far, but not vice versa; for Michigan, Michigan State is third after Ohio State and Notre Dame. And a bunch of other Big Ten schools consider the Michigan game one of their top rivalry games, but to Michigan they're just ordinary conference games, the non-rivalry part of their schedule.</p>
<p>I think you're right about West Virginia and Buffalo. So maybe the Big Ten will just land Rutgers and be stuck at 12 members---a good round number for a playoff. </p>
<p>Then following the recent tradition in which the Big Ten actually has 11 members, they could change the conference name to the Big Eleven and have 12 members, thereby avoiding any naming conflict with that other Big 12.</p>
<p>Yep, you've got it right--the Colorado rivalry is mostly in Colorado; Nebraskans traditionally see Oklahoma as their big rival; Oklahoma hates Texas so much, that rivalry is tops in OK. Very much like the Michigan situation as you say.</p>
<p>West Virginia wouldn't want to enter the Big 10 anyway because of the seething hatred the state has for Michigan now. I would hate to add any schools because the I love the Big 10 logo too much, with the "Eleven" buried in it.</p>
<p>UCBChemGrad has it right. Any school offered Big Ten membership will also be extended membership to the CIC. As such, no school that's not an AAU member--other than Notre Dame--would be considered for Big Ten membership.</p>
<p>That rules out Louisville, WVU any of the directional Michigans or Ohio Fredo schools.</p>
<p>lol, "Nerdy Nine" or the D3 UAA conferrence. Founding member Johns Hopkins dropped out early. We would prefer not to be affiliated with the "Nerdy Nine". For good reasons of course! :-P</p>
<p>Penn State joined the B10 after Joe Pa's attempt to form an Eastern FB/sports league didn't go anywhere.</p>
<p>Penn State actually fits very well into the B10 - a large, land grant research university that has big-time FB and good academics.</p>
<p>Rutgers doesn't bring enough to the table for the B10.</p>
<p>It's pretty much ND or nothing and ND has no interest at this time (it's not about the $$ since the B10 schools each makes just about the same as ND does from its NBC contract).</p>
<p>Not about the money at ND? LOL. You can't be serious?</p>
<p>^ Uhh, I'm being perfectly serious.</p>
<p>Each B10 school currently takes in about $16-17 million from the B10's contracts w/ ABC/ESPN, CBS and the B10 Network - w/ the figure to rise to $20-21 million since the BTN has finally been picked up by all the major cable companies.</p>
<p>ND's current contract w/ NBC pays them $9 million a year. Even w/ the recent extension, I can't see it being much more than $20 mil a year.</p>
<p>So then tell me what reason could there be that ND would not consider joining the Big Ten?</p>
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So then tell me what reason could there be that ND would not consider joining the Big Ten?
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Money. If ND plays as an independent, they don't have to share any football revenue with other schools in a league.</p>
<p>Money isn't as big an issue as alumni sentiment. The only way Notre Dame benefits financially is if it gets invited to a BCS Bowl game. That doesn't happen often. I think Notre Dame has played in just 1 major Bowl in the last 15 seasons. </p>
<p>Notre Dame alumni, on the other hand, do not wish to see their Football program lose its unique "Independent" status. If it were up to the faculty and administration of ND, they would have joined the Big 10/CIC a while back. </p>
<p>I would not be surprised if Notre Dame decided to join the Big 10 eventually. </p>
<p>Other schools that would fit the bill are the University of Pittsburgh or the University of Texas-Austin (although they are unlikely to leave the Big XII).</p>