<p>Even though I have always approached the various college rankings with a skeptical eye, and take them with a grain of salt, I must confess so some frustration that Tufts does not fare better in the USNWR rankings (this year's just released). I appreciate that things like endowment and various elements that have little to do with the quality of education affect these rankings, but how is it that Tufts never does better than a 3.6 on the USNWR "Peer Assessment"? I have never understood why it does not get at least a 4.0.
Any thoughts?</p>
<p>I don’t have an answer to your question, but it irks me that lower ranked schools are listed in CC’s top universities. I don’t understand why Tufts is continuously excluded from that list. I agree with you about viewing the rankings with skepticism, but if there are going to be rankings, and CC seems to follow USNWR rankings with respect to their top listings, why not include Tufts?</p>
<p>Here are my thoughts on this issue .</p>
<p>Given the academic caliber of its student body (measured by average SAT scores and GPA) and its impressive faculty-student ratio for undergraduates, Tufts is comparable to such schools as Brown, University of Pennsylvania, Northwestern, and Duke. Why, then, does the university not receive the level of prestige and respect that it deserves from USNWR editors and many CC posters? Some possible reasons …</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Tufts is still regarded by out-of-touch educators, administrators and pundits to be the moderately selective regional liberal arts college that it was 35 years ago rather than the highly selective national research university that it is today. Tufts ascendancy to the top-tier level of national universities has been relatively recent, and long-established perceptions die hard, even among people who should know better.</p></li>
<li><p>Perception (whether true, false, or debatable) that the so-called Tufts Syndrome yield protection policy once existed and still continues to exist.</p></li>
<li><p>Perception (whether true, false, or debatable) that Tufts once was, and still is, a safety school for applicants denied by the Ivy-league universities.</p></li>
<li><p>Despite being a national university, Tufts lacks a Division 1 sports program (or extremely successful Division 2 or 3 sports program, especially in two or three key sports), thereby depriving the school of more widespread awareness and recognition among desirable applicants across the country. The recent Mens Lacrosse team national title may be an important step towards reversing this problem, although only time (and increased athletics budgeting and recruiting) will tell. Like it or not, sports sells in many ways.</p></li>
<li><p>The suffer by comparison effect. Tufts close geographical proximity to Harvard and MIT causes the school to be overlooked and overshadowed by many highly qualified prospective applicants. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Keep in mind: the Ivy league schools and many other top-tier national universities (i.e., Stanford, Duke, UChicago, Georgetown, Northwestern, etc) have developed reputations for academic excellence that took decades (and in some cases, centuries) to build. Tufts, as a national research university (and a very small one at that), is a relative new-comer to these ranks. It will take more time for Tufts recent and current crop of academic blue chip students to achieve critical mass in society and through their accomplishments change prevailing views about the universitys status. Tufts could engage in an aggressive publicity and marketing campaign, as well as play games with the ranking metrics, in the attempt to bolster its placement on the USNWR list but that would not be the schools style. And by the way: can anyone name one comparable highly selective school whose students generally enjoy such a congenial and humane learning and living experience as that provided by Tufts? If so, Id like to know.</p>
<p>^^In response to your concluding question, I think Northwestern and WashU both qualify.</p>
<p>
Can we at least all agree that these two perceptions, whether either one of them is true or false, are mutually exclusive?
Most of the reputation stuff doesn’t irk me because it all makes sense. As just the facts said, our ascent was incredibly recent, and we don’t have sports teams that matter, so progress is slow on the reputation front. That’s fine. If we keep up the progress we’ve been making, by the time my kids will be looking for schools I’m sure Tufts will have a great reputation.</li>
</ol>
<p>I also don’t mind that the Tufts Syndrome or Ivy League Reject perceptions exist. They’ll fade in time, as they continue to be ridiculously untrue. The only thing that really gets my goat is the large body of people who simultaneously believe BOTH stereotypes. Given the huge body of Ivy League rejects who could feasibly have been accepted, it seems pretty unreasonable to assume that Tufts can so finely tune its admissions process to reject all those candidates who will actually get into an Ivy, but accept only those candidates that applied to and will not get into an Ivy.</p>
<p>To Snarf: I do agree that perceptions 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive in a pragmatic, and perhaps even logical, sense. Of course, pragmatism and logic have never deterred many of the prolific and incredibly misinformed CC posters from expressing their views about any number of schools. </p>
<p>To WCASParent: OK, I’ll accept your conclusion that both Northwestern and WashU have humane and supportive learning environments. I also know that both schools have beautiful campuses and extremely intelligent and accomplished student bodies of the highest level. As academic institutions, I have tremendous respect for Northwestern… but I’m not so sure about WashU. Maybe I’m guilty of the same type of irrational bias often displayed by anti-Tufts critics, but isn’t WashU known for shamelessly gaming its admissions stats by annually placing thousands and thousands and thousands of applicants on its wait list in order to increase its final yield? If true, that greatly detracts from my esteem for WashU as an institution, regardless of the friendliness and supportive nature of its students.</p>
<p>^^No moving targets please. Your question/proposition was “can anyone name one comparable highly selective school whose students generally enjoy such a congenial and humane learning and living experience as that provided by Tufts?”
Without much effort, I named two (I’m sure there are plenty more, especially if you look at some LACs, such as Carleton and Grinnell, among others). I can’t disagree that WashU is brilliant at the PR game, even to the extent (reputedly) of gaming admissions stats, and while that may “detract for [your] esteem for WashU as an institution” (I can’t disagree), its academics, selectivity, and congenial and humane learning and living experiences are certainly comparable to those of Tufts.
Simply put, I know all three schools (Tufts, NU and WashU) rather well, and I love them all.</p>
<p>
You made a few other good points, but as a Tufts athlete I’m gonna call BS on this one. Most of our teams are typically fairly successful on the regional and even national level in division 3, especially considering the type of recruiting we can do when compared to our competitors who either have significantly lower academic standards (most of the schools in D3) or who can somehow lower their standards for recruits more than we can (Williams…). Especially considering how many D3 schools there are in this region, it’s impressive that schools like Tufts, Williams, MIT, Amherst, etc are near the top for most sports in the region (and occasionally in the country).
However, the fact of the matter is that nobody outside of division 3 cares a whole lot about division 3 sports enough for it to make a difference to reputation much in either direction. Tufts could be perennial national contenders in most sports in D3 and not rise in USNWR ranking simply because it’s irrelevant.
The division 3 schools ranked ahead of us are at best on par with us athletically (MIT, WashU, Emory, CMU, JHU - does have some D1 programs though), or way worse (CalTech). As for the schools populating the top of the list, the Ivy League, while D1, does not typically perform well on a national level in sports. Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc may have a few good programs, but for where they lie on the list they’re more the exception.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/390170-tufts-reputation.html?highlight=reputation[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/390170-tufts-reputation.html?highlight=reputation</a></p>
<p>It’s a perennial complaint – sort of the Rodney Dangerfield of higher education.</p>
<p>^ Hello, BalletGirl… nice to see you are still as snarky as always. How about this… I believe that Tufts’ students are as academically qualified as Dartmouth students, and that Tufts will eventually equal or perhaps supersede Dartmouth in their respective general academic reputations. And while I’m on this topic… I believe that Tufts’ location and proximity to Boston allows it to offer a better overall education experience than offered by Dartmouth in Hanover, NH. Of course, that’s just my opinion… what do you think?</p>
<p>^^ I think that there are merits to many of your statements. However, it’s the reputation thing that Tufts is trying to crack and that is the subject of this thread.</p>
<p>Re #3, do you really think the academics who fill out the Peer Assessment forms are highly swayed by lack of a D1 sports program, or that Harvard and MIT are located someplace in the area?</p>
<p>Personally I think many academics would gie it bonus points for not having a D1 sports program.</p>
<p>My own guess is the issue for Peer Assessment is probably more that Tufts does not show up as a research powerhouse at many of the fields these particular academics follow, to the same extent that many of the schools with higher PA’s do. This may either be due to less accomplished researchers on the whole, or equally acomplished researchers but just fewer of them. This perhaps can be a function of its 'tweener size, at least largely.</p>
<p>Just the Facts - Dartmouth is the 4th richest Ivy per student (a 700K per student endowment vs. 120K for Tufts), is much more selective, and spends the most on advising and grants for undergrads. Its a top feeder to elite grad schools (after HYPSM) and elite jobs. Its location is an asset to those looking for a more community driven college experience - hence a 55% yield and 11% acceptance rate. It has never been ranked below #11 in USNEWS. I don’t see how its going down at all. In fact I would say with some small tweaks it could easily be a USNEWS top 5-7. It excels at everything undergrad.</p>
<p>
Looks like someone went to Dartmouth…</p>
<p>^^ Here’s a more interesting question for you, monydad… do you really think “academics” fill out the USNWR “Peer Assessment forms”? And without trying to sound too sarcastic, do you really think that these “academics” consider the respective and separate accomplishments of researchers at all of the leading institutions when they arrive at their PA scores? Even in a general sense?</p>
<p>^^ To slipper1234, I’m not suggesting that Dartmouth is “slipping”… I’m suggesting that Tufts will be moving up. By the way, Dartmouth’s co-valedictorian in 2009 may have an interesting take on this issue… he transferred in from Tufts.</p>
<p>"do you really think “academics” fill out the USNWR “Peer Assessment forms”? "</p>
<p>Do YOU really think football coaches and Harvard administrators(regardless of school) fill them out?</p>
<p>^ No, monydad… I really don’t think that football coaches and Harvard administrators fill out the USNWR Peer Assessment forms. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that very, very few people actually fill out those forms at all, and that those who do make their evaluations based simply upon general recognition of a particular school’s name and reputation in the society at large. For this reason, a D1 sports program (especially a successful program) is "helpfu"l because it increases a school’s recognition in the eyes of John Q. Public… which then ultimately leads to an increase in the school’s PA rating. </p>
<p>In my view, those rankings are preposterous and do not in any way reflect either a school’s educational quality or even its perceived educational quality among those more likely to be in the know, such as graduate school admissions officers, top shelf employers and recruiters, and independent educational consultants and analysts. I still maintain that the academic achievement of the student body as a whole - as imperfectly measured as it may be - is the single most important factor in determining the respective quality rankings of different schools.</p>
<p>"The reputation survey, part of every U.S. News ranking since the first in 1983, asks college presidents, provosts and admissions deans to rate dozens of colleges in the same institutional category on a scale of 1 (“marginal”) to 5 (“distinguished”) for overall undergraduate academic quality. "</p>
<p>"It lists all national universities (all LACs for those asked to evaluate LACs) and asks the participant to circle a score of 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, or “don’t know” about the school’s academic program offerings - with 5 being “distinguished” to 1 being “marginal”. "</p>
<p>Yeah…accept when they pass it onto their secretary, put “average” for everyone except their school, and/or try to hurt their competition. Here’s proof:</p>
<p>[News:</a> Reputation Without Rigor - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/19/rankings]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/19/rankings)</p>
<p>After all, who can keep up with 250+ schools?</p>
<p>Personally I am happy that Tufts is not higher in the rankings. Tufts attracts extremely intelligent, talented and accomplished students. Yet, every student I have met is modest about their abilities, is open to learning from others and repectful of the accomplishments of others. Tufts attracts and selects students who are collaborative by nature and competitive primarily with themselves. They chose Tufts because it speaks to them - not because it is the “best” school they got into. If Tufts were higher in the ranking there would be more applications from those just seeking the prestige of a “top-ranked” university. Probably would not be a good thing for the student body.</p>