<p>Yeah, but many families who make A LOT less than you do have similar expenses, although most of their’s aren’t voluntary (private school, house renovation, etc.). I know that when I go, my family will have 3 people in college (my mother is required to take classes to keep her teaching license, and my sister is required for her career). But I can understand what you are saying. It’s a big burden on everyone.</p>
<p>And that wasn’t counting my mom’s MBA classes either. She gets subsidized by her work but has to pay for a lot of it as well. </p>
<p>If you have seen my house, you would realize those renovations were not voluntary. Our house is about 70 years old and was in need of a lot of repair. Private school is also not voluntary if you realized how terrible the Dallas Independent School District is. When a kid gets stabbed outside the MIDDLE SCHOOL you are zoned to (in a good neighborhood, too), and when heroin is being sold to ELEMENTARY schoolers in the zone you live in for $2 a hit, you probably would send your kids to private school too.</p>
<p>Going to UT itself is voluntary. UT is the most expensive school my family could possibly afford and continue to live anything close to the life we do now without taking out a lot of loans. As I will likely be going to grad school and taking a lot of loans there, I’d rather avoid debt now if I can. I am a finalist for 2 UT scholarships and I’m hoping to get those and reduce my family’s obligation, but many of these obligations are not mandatory.</p>
<p>You could go to a community college and pay under $2000 for perfectly good transferable credits, get Phi Theta Kappa and transfer into a good 4-year college within commuting distance from your house and pay $5k and you’ve spend less than $15k for college. Going to UT and paying what is approaching $100k instate and $175k out of state for 4 years (and many need a 5th) is a choice as well.</p>
<p>Those Texas families that make a lot less than me and still have to bear those expenses should get help too. But when the school has to pay the cost of TWO in-state kids for a single out-of-state kid, it means a lot of middle class Texans lose out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You should see my school. But yes, if my parents could afford, they would send me to private school as well. But they can’t.</p>
<p>And yes, I understand what you are saying, but it is just hard to sympathize with someone who has a family that makes about $150,000 when your own family makes less than half of that. Surely you must understand that?</p>
<p>Of course I understand. I was raised by a single mother for my first 8 years, so I know what it’s like to not have much money. I also know how fortunate I am now.</p>
<p>I dont know hwo to quote but</p>
<p>Kiki:
“Originally Posted by feladis
Since so many UT grads opt to work in Texas, recruiters tend to be from Texas. Those in the honors programs have a better chance of finding a job elsewhere if they want, but few do.
So are you saying that students NOT in honors programs will not be successful in states other than Texas?”</p>
<p>No, I am saying the recruiters that come to Texas are based primarily in Texas, so unless you make an effort to leave, you are probably going to stay in Texas. I was saying Honors kids (like those in BHP) who want to leave have a little easier time attracting attention from top recruiters in NY and other cities thanks to the excellent career services at UT.</p>
<p>Quote:
The intellectual caliber of UT on average IS significantly lower than that of universities like Berkeley. Sorry.
But how can you really measure “intellectual caliber.” SAT scores? GPA? Becasue we all know that there are plenty of smart people who do not do well on the SAT’s and who do not have high GPA’s."</p>
<p>I measure it by how much a student wants to learn. It is simply my impression that Berkeley students want to learn more than those at UT.</p>
<p>So, in YOUR opinion, Berkeley has a higher intellectual caliber than UT. It is not an actual fact. </p>
<p>Wow, again, I sound like a bi-atch. I am not trying to, though.</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>But dont get me wrong. UT is a great school. And Im not going to Berkeley over UT.</p>
<p>But like all good schools, UT has its share of problems.</p>
<p>There is a lot to be said about the top 10% rule. If you ask admissions, they probably dont like it.
- By this rule, many well-qualified students get rejected, and many under-qualified students get accepted.</p>
<p>I dont care that UT doesnt have an “education” major. My point was this girl who got in through the top 10% rule was struggling with a relatively easy major and small course load, and how she wasnt used to working at all (took like 4 courses senior year, 2 of which were pe or something).</p>
<p>Heroin in elementary school? Ha, you Texans are pansies, I was doing lines of coke off the urinal in day care.</p>
<p>And I’m CERTAIN that there isn’t a single student at Berkeley who is struggling over 12 hours in a easy major…</p>
<p>That’s why UT has this thing called the CAP program. When all of the top ten kids who weren’t well prepared fail out, they let a bunch of others who were sent to branch campuses come to UT for the last 3 years.</p>
<p>If you’ve ever been to or seen Texas, you will realize that Texas can be very geographically diverse without having non-Texas.</p>
<p>Texas is not like a normal state where there is a single state culture. Texas is a blend of so many dfferent cultures (Florida is the only other state I can think of like this).</p>
<p>El Paso, in far west Texas, is closer to LA than it is to Orange, TX. Orange, the easternmost town, is closer to Jacksonville, FL than it is to El Paso. Texhoma, at the very tip of the Panhandle, is closer to Aberdeen, SD than it is to Brownsville. Brownsville, the farthest south point in the continental US, is closer to Coatzacoalcos, in Veracruz on Mexico’s southeast coast, than it is to Texhoma.</p>
<p>You have rural east Texans, who have a very Southern culture. You have rural West Texans, who have a very Western culture. You have rural South Texans, who have a very Southwestern/Mexican culture. Each of the cities has a very different feel and culture. There are many different races, and even within those races there are differences. There are many different kinds of Caucasians in Texas, from descendants of the Old 300 Anglo-Americans to Germans who came in the 1830s to Southern implants, to Italians and Czechs coming later, and even some Yankees. You have many kinds of Latinos, from Tejanos who have been here 250 years, to recent immigrants from everywhere from Nuevo Laredo to Tierra del Fuego. You have many kinds of Native Americans.</p>
<p>You have those from dying farm towns. You have those from 3 of the largest 10 cities in the US. You have Catholics and Baptists and Methodists and a thriving Jewish community and Muslims and atheists all living together in harmony. You have those from the Guadalupe foothills and from the Permian basin. From the rolling hills of Kerrville to the Piney Woods of Marshall. From the valley in Laredo and McAllen to the swamps of Beaumont.</p>
<p>I fail to see why we have lack of diversity just because we wouldn’t have people who live on the other side of some arbitrary border the US forced us into when we allowed them to annex us. The US wanted to limit Texas’ influence, or else we’d stretch from Santa Fe to Natchitoches and from Cheyenne to Brownsville.</p>
<p>Texans come in all different shapes and sizes, colors and cultures, personalities and background. If you ever go to UT, you will see that it is not just the OOS students adding diversity.</p>
<p>This ain’t Kansas, after all.</p>
<p>Wow, Loneranger. You sound like a commercial for Texas. I believe you are right- yes UT Austin is very diverse, as are the people from Texas. But someone from the northeast will, more than likely, be different than any person in Texas. So adding that student to the mix at UT will add a DIFFERENT TYPE of diversity, not necessarily more diversity. For instance, almost every person I have met that plans to go to Texas next year (from the state) knows many other people from their school also going to UT Austin- and the number that they know is usually high. So, this means that UT has people from all around Texas, but these students usually come in groups from the same area (usually meaning coming from the same socio-economic backgrounds, and having had grown up in the same area). If UT took in more OOS students, then this would limit this occurrence (which is not bad, but many students coming from the same high school is limiting to diversity; you can only be so different going to the same school and growing up in the same area).</p>
<p>And don’t you know how you described how different Texans were? Well Americans are even MORE different. There people from various corners of the country that are incredibly different than people in Texas. People from California are different from people in the Northeast who are different than people from the Midwest who are different from people in Texas. So, Texas is very diverse, but America is even more diverse.</p>
<p>And, you only talked about people from other states. There is an entire WORLD full of students. The high number of Texans also limits the number of internationals that get admitted to the school. And you cannot say that students from other countries would not add diversity to UT. </p>
<p>Overall, I am not saying that is bad that UT Austin is somehow deficient because it is mostly Texans. I actually like that part about the school. So UT does NOT have a lack of diversity, but the diversity that it can have is limited (which, again, is not a bad thing). </p>
<p>On a bit of a different note…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is exactly the point. If the state boundary is just “some arbitrary border” then why should students have a limited chance of admittance based on it? In that case, why shouldn’t every student in the top 10 % of their class in the USA be admitted. Or, for that matter, the world (I know these ideas are ridiculous- that is the point)? Why not just ignore the state lines altogether? If it is just “some arbitrary border” then why should the law be limited to the state? We are one country. </p>
<p>Also, the top ten percent also has other downsides. It takes the pressure off of some students, but creates a difficult situation for other. What about students at schools that do not rank? Or students in classes of students with only 22 people? They are basically screwed. It seems to me to be almost like a punishment.</p>
<p>Here is a good article on why the 10% rule is in place. Bills have been introduced to cap it at a lower % but they have yet to pass one. </p>
<p>[Is</a> The “Top 10” Plan Unfair? , Debate Over Texas Law That Grants Preference To Certain Students - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/15/60minutes/main649704.shtml]Is”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/15/60minutes/main649704.shtml)</p>
<p>I agree with you on the diversity issue. UT is definately more diverse than A&M, but it is all relative. Since A&M is not filling up their freshman class with as many top 10% as UT, A&M is making a big effort to recruit top students from other states with full rides. I don’t care how you slice it, it is hard to turn down a full-ride to a top state university. When your child wants to go to med school, it would be nice to spend the tuition dollars there instead of undergrad.</p>
<p>If your school does not rank then UT uses your class profile to determine where you should rank, it isn’t a problem. It just takes time for them to process you.</p>
<p>If you go to a school with 22 kids then maybe you should have reconsidered that school. You should realize what you need to do to get in to the college you want. And if you work hard you can get in the top 2 kids. And if you look above, kids from smaller schools aren’t hurt if they have the credentials otherwise. That’s why rank is only about 1/3 of the AI. SAT is much more important.</p>
<p>The fact is that because of our federal system of government, people outside of Texas aren’t helping fund the university. In an ideal world we would have free national higher education, but we don’t and never will. So the fact that people in Texas fund UT and they are very diverse is a compelling argument to only admit Texans.</p>
<p>There are plenty of first-generation Texas residents who are quaified to enter UT. You don’t have to have international kids. I think it is good there is diversity, I’m just saying that you could easily have the same thing with just Texas people. And the legislature restricts the number of foreigners UT can accept and how UT can fund them, so it’s another thing that is outside their control. Basically our legislature likes to tell the universities what to do but yet cut their funding back every year. It’s what we like to call “Republican Roulette–” see how far it can go before we end up shooting the schools in the foot.</p>
<p>This post made me sort out a lot of questions I had.</p>
<p>You will not be able to talk about UT at dinner parties like other HYPS and MIT graduates will. But, what kind of LAME dinner party would THAT happen at? Why does it matter what a bunch of post-menopausal, sexually frustrated old hags think? </p>
<p>However, parents also believe in prestige because they think it has the ability to give their kids immense opportunities to success. I used to believe in it too, and wanted to apply to Harvard, Yale, Brown, and MIT just based on name recognition. Well, that’s BULL. Parents want to create the next Gates, Warren, or Darwin. But, these individuals are prestigious now because they were trailblazers and independents that did not rely on the name-borrowing of any college or university…they went AGAINST these institutions in more ways than one. As you can see, in life you create your OWN prestige. I’ll give you an example: I used to go to an extremely prestigious magnet program in South Texas. After first semester senior year, because of circumstances really beyond my control, I dropped out and went to a “ghetto” school. Well, this school has an amazing independent study program, where I take classes online and in ANYTHING I want. They have ALL AP programs, and they’re at my own self-pace, so there’s no teacher to slow me down. I’ve condensed Calculus AB(going into BC subtopics right now) English Lit, English Language, AP BIO, AP Govt, AP Economics, and a couple other classes within half’s a semester’s time. AND I get out at 2:30. My SAT score jumped from 2040 to 2340..without any practice, simply because I think that now my intelligence was being stimulated for what it really was. Not to mention, I was rewarded: I was accepted to all the honors programs at UT I applied to, where all my friends from my old magnet were rejected, except one, who is completely brilliant, independent of the school. </p>
<p>If you really think about it, it makes less sense for a kid to go to HYPS and MIT if they want prestige. They will be shoveled into a class of president’s sons, where name recognition is the game, and will have to distinguish themselves amongst a class of already distinguished kids. GOOD LUCK! 
I’d rather belong to UT, where there is IMMENSE amounts of opportunity that is simply not taken advantage of as much as it should be. I know that academia and extracurriculars are represented so well at UT already. It makes more sense to go to an institution that is not based on this idiotic, historic value of prestige. Instead, I get to be creative and do WHATEVER it is I need to do to make me happy. I get the sense that going to UT allows me to say: this is MY institution, instead of just hiking along on the trail of Harvard.</p>
<p>Well said inskeletonrock. Intelligent and motivated people make the most of any situation or enviornment.</p>
<p>Yes, agreed. Well said, inskeletonrock. I completely agree with you.</p>
<p>I’m an international student who has been admitted to UT Austin (without honors) and Berkeley (with a Regents Scholarship invite). There are many good points in this thread but I’m still unable to decide between the two. So, excluding financial factors (which I’ll consider later), which would you say is better?</p>
<p>UT Austin seems to be better in 75% of the areas: dorms, professors, competition, job placement, city, weather, social life, etc. (sourced from collegeprow<em>er, stude</em>tsreview, etc.). The only concern I have about is the Prestige & academics issue. Berkeley is more prestigious than UT and I dont know how much that would affect me. Also, I dont know how the classes at UT are: are the professors approachable or are classes mostly taught by TAs?</p>
<p>Besides, I would rather not face all the competition at Cal (EECS) if I can do well at UT and have a reasonable social life. Half the people at Cal EECS claim that the work-load is overwhelming but I havent heard any of that from UT and I have no idea why.</p>
<p>Oh and Im getting a lot of **** from my friends here about choosing UT over Cal. </p>
<p>Thoughts anyone?</p>
<p>Cal is more prestigious but isn’t any better if you want approachable professors and TA classes. They’re public schools, you won’t get that at any public school.</p>
<p>Berkeley is definitely more prestigious, but I don’t know how that could hurt you. A Berkeley degree won’t mean anything more than a UT degree to a grad school. Outside of California, it won’t help you get a job particularly more so than UT (and could hurt you if the employer is conservative and doesn’t like Berkeley).</p>
<p>UT has a far better location, weather, social life, etc. It also isn’t as competitive, so in this respect you would be right. EE is going to be hard no matter where you go, but I haven’t heard about it being cut-throat competitive.</p>
<p>It IS $40k a year though, so if you get a scholarship to UC I would have to go with that. UT’s a great place, but if you are paying $40k with international student aid (ie none) and Berkeley is cheaper, it may be a better value for your education.</p>
<p>Thanks loneranger! Even if I do get Regents, it’ll be for $1000, not more and I know I’m not going to get any aid in either of them, so that factor deosn’t matter much. :)</p>
<p>imma throw my 2 cents in here
- first of all whoever says people work hard for SAT scores, what school did you go to??? BC at my high school the SAT was a joke, I can’t honestly name one person that prepped for the SAT</p>
<ul>
<li>Next im from Houston and personally like Houston better than Austin although Austin is a “neat” city to say the least, but to me there are too many liberal wackos roaming around and it does get frustrating…also no porfessional sports teams haha</li>
</ul>
<p>-One positive is the tuition, im getting a great business education and paying less in four years than some people pay in one year at an IVY and graduating debt free, other than Rice, UT would be the only other Texas scool I would even consider</p>
<ul>
<li>As for the argument about Texas, I personally want to get out fo Texas as soon as possible, other than Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, I cant stand the country/southern feel of the state (I thank God everyday that I never developed a Texan accent in my 19 years here), I can name 5 places I would much rather live right now (ex- Las Vegas, New York, Miami, Los Angeles…) although the cost of living is brutal in these cities, I get depressed making the drive from Houston to Austin and seeing mile after mile of land/frontier/cattle and all the other disgusting characteristics that remind me Im still in Texas (and the cowboys, country music etc…)- throw me in a concrete jungle and im sattisfied
-these are all opinions and I know some are far off but **** thats how I feel</li>
</ul>