<p>Here's what I found out about UTs diversity (from princetonreview.com)</p>
<p>Student Body
Enrollment: 36,241
Female: 52%
Out of State: 4%
International: 4%
African American: 4%
Asian: 17%
Caucasian: 57%
Hispanic: 17%
Native American: 0% </p>
<p>Admission Stats
Freshmen Returning for Sophomore Year: 93%
Freshmen Graduating in 4 years: 46%
Freshmen Graduating in 6 years: 77%</p>
<p>^What were you showing?</p>
<p>UVAs diversity</p>
<p>Student Body
Enrollment: 13,440
Female: 55%
Out of State: 28%
International: 5%
African American: 8%
Asian: 11%
Caucasian: 65%
Hispanic: 4%
Native American: 0% </p>
<p>Admission Stats
Freshmen Returning for Sophomore Year: 97%
Freshmen Graduating in 4 years: 83%
Freshmen Graduating in 6 years: 92%
Students Going to Graduate School Upon Graduation: 26%</p>
<p>So kiki, are all the kids from oos that wind up at UVA pretty arrogant, preppy, conservative?</p>
<p>I can't really speak about the OOS students that attend UVA. I truthfully don't know any OOS students at UVA. I only know the in-state sudents from my area who attend there and the students who I met when I visited, and I am telling you MY opinions. I'm sure there are plenty of people there who are not like how I described. I am not trying to put down UVA, or the other two schools, if that is what you are thinking. They are great schools, just not for me. </p>
<p>And why did point out OOS students? I didn't say anything about OOS students at the school.</p>
<p>I just pointed out OOS students because when I think of diversity, I think of people who come from different places and backgrounds, and I'd expect UVA to be more diverse as a result of the high oos population. </p>
<p>From what I've heard from friends at UT, UT has a lot the kids that are from similar backgrounds and many come from the big cities, like Houston, San Antonio, Austin and the D/FW metroplex. </p>
<p>From a numbers standpoint, yes UT has to be more diverse, but I've read a few posts from people in threads like 'What you don't like about UT?' and they've complained about UT's lack of diversity. </p>
<p>In the end, each person has their own opinion. I know a bunch of kids that love UT and a few that have already transferred.</p>
<p>To each his own.</p>
<p>UT has many sour points.</p>
<p>Since so many UT grads opt to work in Texas, recruiters tend to be from Texas. Those in the honors programs have a better chance of finding a job elsewhere if they want, but few do.</p>
<p>The intellectual caliber of UT on average IS significantly lower than that of universities like Berkeley. Sorry. Honors programs like BHP and Plan II though are definitely on that level. My tour guide really scared me .. felt she was overworked majoring in education with like 12 credits the semester?</p>
<p>Theloneranger: It isnt a nice thing to say that higher SAT scores equals pretentiousness/pomposity. People work hard for those scores. </p>
<p>The biggest problem of UT is the lack of diversity - 94% are from Texas. Good deal for Texans. Bad deal for UT, and everybody who goes to UT.</p>
<p>I basically meant racial diversity. Really, not even that. It's more like- personality diversity. I mean, if you (crs1909) have ever been to UVA, you would know what I meant. It is incredibly obvious. At the football games, the students wear DRESSES and SUITS. No lie. All of them. It's unbelievable. You really cannot just look at the stats. You have to see for yourself. Yes, UVA has more OOS students, but, economically, and, comparing their backgrounds, I am sure that they are very similar. Even the students that I know who did not come from backgrounds like this change when they go there. But again, this is JUST what I have noticed.</p>
<p>I really do not get the same feeling from Texas. Yes, most of the students are from Texas, but I believe that becasue they are from various parts of Texas, and from very different backgrounds, you get a very mixed culture. At UVA, however, you just get basically the same people from the samt type of nighborhood. Again, though, that's just me. Actually, that is the opinion of most of the people that I know, because we experience UVA people on a regular basis.</p>
<p>@ feladis</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So are you saying that students NOT in honors programs will not be successful in states other than Texas?</p>
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The intellectual caliber of UT on average IS significantly lower than that of universities like Berkeley. Sorry.
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<p>But how can you really measure "intellectual caliber." SAT scores? GPA? Becasue we all know that there are plenty of smart people who do not do well on the SAT's and who do not have high GPA's.</p>
<p>You can get a great education no matter where you attend, it's all what you make of it. People worry a little too much about names, just work hard and you can be as successful as anyone else, whether they went to Harvard or Community college.</p>
<p>No, I personally love the fact that people from out of state can experience UT and how great of a school it is.</p>
<p>But there is a legitimate argument for not admitting any OOS kids because of the number of well qualified Texas kids who don't get in. I also don't like that OOS kids get financial aid on their $40k whereas my family is expected to pay a quarter of our income before we receive ANYTHING at all.</p>
<p>But I have nothing against OOS kids. I'm just pointing out a legitimate argument that many qualified kids are rejected because of the top ten law. I really like that law because it contributes to the diversity of the school and takes a lot of pressure off of elite students, but the 80% that get in under the law means it's really hard for anyone else to get in.</p>
<p>UT does not have an education major, so I don't know where you are getting your info from.</p>
<p>You can do kinesiology, special ed, or early childhood in the CoE, or you can do UTeach. There is no traditional "education" major.</p>
<p>Just because there are some kids that aren't as smart as others does not mean that the students as a whole are not smart. UT chooses/is forced by law to admit many more students, so there is a much larger sampling of educational backgrounds and preparedness than at UC. Just because someone may not have had the advantages that a kid from HW or Loyola has does not mean they aren't as smart. UT's system rewards hard-working kids from all throughout the state with admission to the flagship campus, regardless of whether their parents paid $10k for test prep or a college counselor. UC pretends to reward kids for working hard, but the top 4% isn't a big sample, and then they make it worse by shuttling those kids that aren't from good schools off to Merced and Riverside instead of giving them the chance to show what they can do at one of the best universities in the country such as UCB or UCLA.</p>
<p>And, sorry to disappoint you, but you are giving Berkeley WAY too much credit by comparing it to Plan II. Plan II is MUCH more rigorous than a standard Berkeley degree. It's generally accepted that Plan II is comparable to an Ivy league education, while it is generally not accepted that Berkeley is.</p>
<p>And I hate to tell you, but people DON'T work hard for SAT scores. Every single person I know above 2300 did NO prep whatsoever, they just showed up and took the test once (I know about 10 people, myself included, in that category).</p>
<p>I know people whose parents paid out boatloads of cash to get their kid prep to try to get them from a 1650 to a 2100. Now that company is getting sued by the college board for getting live questions and those kids could lose their scores.</p>
<p>I admire the hard work, but it's increasingly clear to educators that a high SAT score is reflective of two things: how well prepared are you in school and how naturally smart are you. It's no surprise that the highest average scores are in the most affluent zip codes (it's the best way to project SAT success according to the lovely folks at the College Board). Those kids are going to better public schools or private schools, tend to be coming from a gene pool that's rewarded intelligence and education, or else have parents willing to shell out a lot of money for a KD test prep class to inflate their kids score.</p>
<p>I never claimed the high SAT scores made people pompous (though no doubt many people may get that opinion). What I did claim is that many coastal posters on CC tend to have the attitude that coastal kids and schools are somehow inherently better when they are not.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that I don't like the law or anything, but one could argue the opposite- that the the law, in fact, actually limits the (geographic) diversity of the school. It depends on how you look at "diversity." And does it really take the pressure off of "elite" students (by whom I'm guessing you mean higher ranked students)? Doesn't it just give them the added pressure of having to stay in the top ten percent? Because it is so hard to get in if you are not in the top ten-percent, I am guessing that many students feel pressured to stay at the top of thier class. Like you said, "but the 80% that get in under the law means it's really hard for anyone else to get in."</p>
<p>I know you meant that they are less pressured because they know that they def. are into a good school, but I am just saying that the law, although taking away some pressures, also creates some. </p>
<p>Oh, and I really am not trying to sound mean or argumentative or anything. I'm just wondering. You don't even have to answer if you don't want to. </p>
<p>And did you mean that you don't like that students get financial aid when their families only make $40,000? Because, even if they are OOS, they surely deserve some sort of aid.</p>
<p>Sorry to randomly butt in here, but theloneranger: is Plan II really that comparable to an Ivy League education? Generally accepted that Plan II is like the Ivies in which areas of the nation aside from Texas? Where are you getting this perception from? </p>
<p>I was accepted last week into Plan II as an out-of-state student; the reason why I'm asking is because I'm from the Northeast and thus am very ignorant of Plan II's reputation/prestige in Texas and UT. So I really have no idea about Plan II's prestige other than it's very competitive to get in. I actually hadn't even heard of it until I decided to apply to UT and then decided to apply to Plan II on a whim.</p>
<p>UCB is by far one of the best public schools in the nation, I think we can agree on that. Plan II I can tell you is very unheard of in my area, the DC/MD/VA metropolitan area, unless you talk to UT grads (obviously), but UCB on the other hand is very well known and recognized. </p>
<p>While I recognize that Plan II is an amazing program, I don't think you should undermine the value of a Berkeley degree in relation to Plan II. A Berkeley degree is very valuable, and a Plan II one is as well; I don't think vehemently arguing that one is "MUCH more rigorous" than the other really makes a difference--going to Berkeley or having a Plan II degree will greatly help anyone's career.</p>
<p>UT's diversity stats are about on par with the state with the exception of Hispanic students. Whites are over-represented by about 7% and so are Asians. African Americans are about on par with their percentage of the state population, whereas Latinos are about a quarter of the state's population but lag behind.</p>
<p>One reason for this is cost. Even with grants and scholarships, it's hard for many immigrant families to afford $20k a year in state. Also, it's also much harder for undocumented students to earn those scholarships and grants that do exist. They also must often overcome language barriers to attain the top ten percent in their schools.</p>
<p>Most people who complain about UT's diversity aren't trying hard enough to get to know other people. People do tend to hang out with those of similar backgrounds, be that from the same hometown, economic group, ethnicity, interests, activities, classes, or even dorms. The fact that students are cliquey tends to come from the fact that students want to hang out with those that are familiar to them. That's not to say that you can't make friends with those of different backgrounds if you try, because they are definitely there.</p>
<p>UNC and UVA are both great schools, and both are also restricted by OOS quotas by state law (UNC's is 18% which isn't too bad). I'd have gone to either had I been looking around at the Morehead and Jefferson programs earlier in the year. I was dead set on Texas at first, then started looking around in December to get some backup options but it was too late to earn money at UNC or UVA. They are both great schools, and in particular I've heard amazing things about Echols at UVa. It's a lot like Plan II and if I had heard about it earlier I definitely would have applied.</p>
<p>But I am 100% happy and excited to be a Longhorn. Deep down, I've always known I'd end up here, I've always been a Longhorn fan, and I love sharing the Gospel according to Vince to anyone who wants to hear. So come on y'all and see what's so great about UT!</p>
<p>At Berkeley you won't get anywhere near the ammount of individual attention that you would get in Plan II. Tell UCB you want a 15 kid literature class for your entire freshman year. They will laugh you out of the office.</p>
<p>Plan II within Texas is also not well known unless it is to Longhorns, in which case it means a lot. Within Texas, though, UT is a big thing. It is a better place to have gone than Harvard to get a job in Texas. Plan II also makes a really great summary sheet to place with a resume and that helps a lot too.</p>
<p>Where Plan II really has a great reputation nationally is in grad and professional school applications. They all know about it and how great of a program it is. It will prepare you for any kind of grad school you could think of, and they will be impressed by it to no end.</p>
<p>Just so you know, a vast majority of UT grads stay in state after graduation. If you come here expecting to leave, expect to get your mind changed.</p>
<p>But I will ask you this. Does Echols at UVA have a great reputation up there in the VA area? Because no one in Texas has heard of it, and going to UVA won't make a big difference in getting a job here (Alabama would work just as well).</p>
<p>No, I agree that if students are going to be admitted from OOS they need to be funded. I don't agree with paying more that you would to a similar Texan student though. That really would make it hard on a lower-income kid from OOS to come here, but that's just an unrealistic burden to place on the taxpayers of this state. The legislature already doesn't fund the University enough (thanks to GOP control) and OOS kids take away funds that could be going to Texas kids in the $40-$80k range who will find it very hard to pay $20k a year to go to school but won't be getting much or any aid. I also know that this would never happen. I personally think that any state sending a kid to an OOS public school should have to pay the gap between OOS and instate tuition for that student.</p>
<p>And to clarify, I meant the $40k tuition, not a $40k income. It would simply not be right to make a kid from a family that makes $40k to pay it all.</p>
<p>My family wouldn't qualify anyways under that plan. It's just a sad fact of life that if you make over $50k or so you will have to pay a lot (and my family likely makes triple that). I wish that Texans would elect Democrats to the Lege and reenact tuition regulation, but I don't see that happening until 2012 if there is a strong Democratic administration from 2008. It would be too late to help me though. :( I just want my $4,000 tax exemption for community service!</p>
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Does Echols at UVA have a great reputation up there in the VA area?
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<p>I know that you were not directing this at me, but no. I have only heard of it once (on the UVA tour) and that is about it. And I (literally) know close to a 100 students who go or who are going to to UVA.</p>
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It's just a sad fact of life that if you make over $50k or so you will have to pay a lot (and my family likely makes triple that).
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<p>Wow. My family makes about $70,000. Are you really that worried about tuition?</p>
<p>Hell, I figured talk of Democrats in Texas (outside of Austin) would be blasphemy. This is the state that let George W. be Governor.</p>
<p>Hell, this is the nation that let his father pick Supreme Court justices that let him be president...
And I figured that Austin is really home and I've been living in Dallas for 15 years (and Tulsa, OK of all places before that). And it's blasphemy to say Bush is Texan. He was not born here, he cannot be Texan. He can ask the legislature to designate him an "Honorary Texan," he can be a Texas resident, but he is not and never will be a Texan. He is and always shall be a Connecticut Yankee.</p>
<p>Well yeah a little. You start by paying $30k in income taxes. Then you have to pay $22k for one kid to go to college and then another $10k for another to go to private school (up from $10k and $0 this year). Now we are already ou 40% of what we've earned and then we have to tack on a whole lot of other expenses (namely a $50k house renovation that's being paid for, in addition to your standard mortgate), you don't have so much money left over. The extra $22k per year combined with the heaviest tax burden being given to those families between $100-200k will make things quite a bit more difficult for my family. And we don't qualify for a cent in need-based aid or subsidized need based loans.</p>