<p>And as I said UW has overperformed on grad rates for every year of the rankings. I have not seen this year. Perhaps USNews made another math error as they did with Stanford. Nothing has changed significantly in the last year. Over the last five years the grad rate has gone from 78.3% to 82.1% so it’s hard to see where it has not improved.</p>
<p>USNWR is losing it as an indicator of quality by changing their evaluation system. HS guidance counselors??? They don’t know about all colleges, especially out of their region. Bias from those responding, etc. Maybe they should do a la business publications and incorporate the cost of attendance as a measure- if UW cost more fewer would choose to take longer to graduate and forgo an excellent experience. Or they should account for working students. It doesn’t matter what the current ranking is, UW still has the same high quality it did last year. Too bad for parents and students who only pay attention to USNWR absolute rankings. I tell people to use it for the factual data- test score %iles, gpa’s… when considering/comparing schools. Their special issue also has had some good reading before the lists in the past. Hopefully grad programs don’t use it as a source for choosing students.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Stooge, as I said before, no one is talking about graduating in FOUR years – the U.S. News rankings are based on SIX year graduation rates. The formula allows plenty of time for taking travelling, working, or living on a Kibbutz, yet UW still does relatively poorly. </p></li>
<li><p>Barrons, you cannot be serious that until this year UW was over-performing on graduation rates by any measure! If you have actual numbers to show me, fine, but it would be wholly inconsistent with the UW’s administration’s own recognition that graduation rates have been a problem – in fact, as you know, improving the rate is one of the drivers of the Madison Initiative. US News didn’t commit a math error, and you can argue until the cows come home over whether graduation rates should matter, but you can’t argue against the FACT that UW’s graduation rates have long lagged behind the top flagships.</p></li>
<li><p>Wis75, your comments about high school guidance counselors apply just as much to presidents and provosts, where UW does better: they, too, might be biased and also may not know much about schools outside of their region. As for working students skewing the numbers, we’ve been there, done that. The list I just gave you above shows that virtually every top-ranked flagship has a better graduation rate than UW. I guess the only flagship school where kids have jobs is UW? This would be very odd considering that except for U-Va and William and Mary all of these universities have greater economic diversity than UW. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>UW is an outstanding graduate institution and a very good but not outstanding undergraduate institution. It belongs near the bottom of the top 50, exactly where US News has it. End of story.</p>
<p>Please note the Ohio State student’s thread- s/he wants to know about UW for grad school. He doesn’t want to stick around there any longer wheras many UW students regret having to graduate and leave. </p>
<p>How do you know the relative merits of the undergrad educations? How many choose extra majors? Have you studied course offerings and syllabi at each? Did you check the professors’ rotations for teaching undergrads. Less online info and more true knowledge, please. Then your opinions will carry weight. One of the jobs of upper level U officials is to keep track of how their school is doing relative to others, HS guidance counselors do not have this training for the entire country.</p>
<p>I have copies of many back issues of US News and they do a predicted versus actual graduation rate and if you are over you get points. UW has always been over the predicted rate which is based on a USNews formula. This year they were a whole 1 point below.</p>
<p>Pardon me, the four year grad rate issue was a past obsession of yours on this board. </p>
<p>Six years? I don’t see how that says much - too many outside factors.</p>
<p>Stooge, you crack me up. Four year graduation rates are meaningless because we’re all making better use of our time on a Kibbutz, and six year rates don’t mean anything because there are “too many factors.” What about the fact that every other flagship university ranked ahead of UW does better, and consistently better, on both four and six year rates? What’s so unique about UW that this makes it a better school? And why does UW’s administration care about improving graduation rates if they don’t matter? </p>
<p>You’re right, barrons, this year UW was a mere one point below. But compare UW to the peer group to which it aspires: U-Va was 6 points above; Michigan 5; Berkeley 5; UCLA 5, etc. The list goes on and on, and while these numbers may seem trivial to you they translate into thousands of students that these other schools are graduating on time and that UW is not.</p>
<p>And Wis75, puleeeze. UW doesn’t corner the market on happy students who don’t want to leave. You ask for “less online info and more true knowledge, please?” and then turn around and quote from one anonymous OSU student??? Physician, heal thyself. We’re all expressing opinions here, not just me, and I’m actually offering numbers and date in support of mine. You’re offering nothing in response except a series of hypotheses.</p>
<p>“Four year graduation rates are meaningless because we’re all making better use of our time on a Kibbutz, and six year rates don’t mean anything because there are “too many factors.””</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>Stooge, that’s only true of people for which money is no object. Don’t see a lot of that going on in Wisconsin, or anywhere else these days. Most people complain about UW’s costs being too high and the lack of scholarships.</p>
<p>When harsh cold economic reality intrudes into that fantasy world you’ve concocted… 4-year graduation rates do matter.</p>
<p>^ speak for yourself. I was a 100% aid student. I count my lucky stars I was able to attend.</p>
<p>BTW, I’m from Illinois and wasn’t offered anywhere near the same deal at UIUC.</p>
<p>No loans? You got a 100% free ride to UW?</p>
<p>Less than 5k in loans.</p>
<p>What happens to students whose families earn $85,000 per year and are supporting 2 or 3 college students? Will they get the same deal from UW that you did for 5 or 6 years to get a 4 year degree? Only 5k in loans?</p>
<p>I can answer that… NO. My D got no aid whatsoever and on top of that got completely blindsided by the $7,500 extra Madison Initiative surcharge. Martin failed to inform incoming freshmen of that proposed HUGE increase in charges.</p>
<p>7500 over 4 years–big whoop. That would not cover the engineering surcharge at UI for two years if you kid changed majors. You failed to read.</p>
<p>I also got a free ride to UW (OOS) for one degree and managed to get the second with $10K in loans–long paid off.</p>
<p>Less than 5 years thank you and was certainly not on aid when not in school, like at the Kibbutz that Nova thinks is soooo hilarious.</p>
<p>UW engineering has a surcharge, as well. UIUC tuition is locked at a student’s first year rate. No tuition increases every year like UW.</p>
<p>Failed to read what? Nothing was sent to admitted students regarding the proposed extra $7,500 Madison Initiative surcharge before the May 1st decision deadline. It certainly wasn’t included in the admission materials or the financial aid statement. UW was the only school my D considered that wasn’t upfront about expected cost.</p>
<p>Why did UW give you a free ride, barrons? Question goes to Stooge, as well? Why was your education subsidized so heavily when most people can hardly get anything from UW?</p>
<p>Therer is a big difference between a $1000/yr surcharge and the UI $2500/yr. </p>
<p>They gave me a free ride because I was a smart minority kid and in demand. They do have merit money for that–quite a bit relatively.</p>
<p>That difference is more than made up by not having any tuition increases at UIUC - tuition is frozen at the student’s first year rate, AND not having to pay UW’s EXTRA Madison Initiative tuition surcharge.</p>
<p>Hmmm… Why should a smart minority kid get a free ride when a smart non-minority kid does not? Rather interesting coming from you… you’re the one who accuses colleges of ‘buying’ students with merit scholarships that are open to all (not just minority kids).
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/indiana-university-bloomington/564944-new-numbers-out-iub.html#post1062664859[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/indiana-university-bloomington/564944-new-numbers-out-iub.html#post1062664859</a></p>
<p>I’m a non-minority, pretty smart, but I got an almost-full ride from UW. It was need based…it’s called the FastTrack program. I have a $1500 loan (which I won’t need to take) and a $2000 work-study but other than that the entire COA is covered for four years. The loan and work-study each go up $500 per year, but other than that, everything is covered. I don’t know how many people get into this program but I’m sure some other students do. I am very poor, however.</p>
<p>Stooges, I don’t think your being on a Kibbutz is “hilarious” per se. I just think it shows how clueless and out of touch you are. I think it’s fair to say that, for many if not most college students attending public colleges, cost is a significant – indeed, driving – factor. And to have posters like you and barrons, who graduated years and years ago, to come on this board and say, hey, taking 5 or 6 years or more to graduate is just fine – many students love it, in fact, and you get to live on a Kibbutz! – is ludricrous.</p>