When decisions are made by governments (whether and what restrictions to have to reduce the spread of virus, distribution / prioritization / rationing of vaccines, etc.), politics inevitably comes into play.
(Note that a government decision to do nothing would still be a decision that will result in political criticism by those who feel that the government’s inaction is failing in its duty to govern to insure domestic tranquility and promote the general welfare.)
So maybe in my ideal world everyone has both common sense and empathy for others -would naturally choose to do the right thing without having to be directed to do so.
I’m quite aware that ideal worlds don’t exist unfortunately. We’d never need a police force, security, or military if they did. Plenty of people feel life is all about them and have no problem stepping on others if necessary to get what they want or feel should be theirs.
But that’s a side track, for sure, and I’m not saying non-vaxers are criminals needing to be arrested or whatever. Only that the “all about me” mindset is somewhat similar.
Oh, the doctors on the talk show definitely WANT the data to be gathered and you could tell they were unhappy that no one was keeping it (except Israel). Gottlieb was one, and I think he used to be at the CDC. They commented on all the same things we all talk about here on CC (it’s almost like we play doctors on the internet!)- children wearing masks, mandatory vaccines (which they said will happen by employers, army, etc, once there is full approval by the CDC). They also said they don’t think there will be approval for the 2 to 11 age group until late fall (after the school semester) and I wasn’t aware that it was being tested at a lower dosage.
But they definitely wish there was more data being kept, especially to know if boosters are needed, at what intervals, at what dosage.
Did any of them say when they expect full FDA approval for Pfizer?
I don’t always pay attention to the details (it’s early!) but I think they were talking about later in September or October for Pfizer CDC approval. Maybe they were just being pessimistic as that was the tone today, but their frustration was coming through.
@deb922 my sister has autoimmune issues and her Dr ordered an antibody test when she had other blood work done.
Another friend who is undergoing chemo also had a blood test ordered by his Dr.
Yes. I saw this article. 159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases – NBC Chicago
I just read that the differences between the results in Israel (67% effective against Delta), and the UK (88% effective against Delta) may indeed indicate waning of the effectiveness, since in Israel there are many more people who were vaccinated early.
On the other hand, the fact that the infections were in areas with high vaccination rates in Israel would bias the results, since a vaccinated person would be much more likely to interact with a contagious person than an unvaccinated person. So we don’t really know how the contagion rate of vaccinated people compares to that for unvaccinated people.
On the other hand, the protection against serious cases is easier to estimate because you simply count the total number of vaccinated who test positive, and see what proportion of these have serious cases. These results are what demonstrated that vaccinated people were >90% protected, compared to unvaccinated people.
Perhaps if they’re attending a college that is requiring a vaccination to attend, then they would know?
Israel followed the Pfizer recommendations for the interval between shots but the UK did not. At the time the vaccination program got going in the UK, they were in the middle of a surge in covid cases, so the government made the decision to vaccinate as many people as possible with one shot so they could get at least some protection because they didn’t have enough vaccine doses to vaccinate everyone on schedule.
This became a kind of real-life experiment and what they found was one shot gave more protection over time (longer than the recommended interval) than originally expected. So by the time people got the second shot they were working with higher immunity.
I found a UK paper that explainswhat happens with the neutralizing antibodies and T-cell responses when the interval is extended.
There could be other factors at work as well besides the interval, like testing differences and the fact that Israel vaccinated earlier and immunity could be waiting.
Yes, they have found that they think the ideal time between Pfizer vaxes is 8 weeks, not 3.
If they would allow boosters now, I’d be getting one today, esp since vaxes are in ample supply (no lines).
I sure wish that article had given percentages, not raw data. 8 in the past week out of how many? And what age? Co-morbidities? It says 159 = 2.3% of deaths since Jan, but were all these people fully vaxed in Jan? I doubt it - possible since health care workers and elderly were getting them then (my medical boy was fully vaxed in Jan) - but it’s doubtful that all were.
Are most of these deaths recent? Which vax? When was the last shot of the vax?
That article provides so little info it’s frustrating for those of us who want to know the details.
It’s likely the FDA will require data (from a clinical trial) before approving a change in timing. Pfizer has a booster study ongoing…but I assume trials are relatively more difficult to enroll right now, but maybe delta will help. To Evaluate the Safety, Tolerability, Efficacy and Immunogenicity of BNT162b2 Boosting Strategies Against COVID-19 in Participants ≥12 Years of Age. - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
OTOH Fauci did seem to think they were considering boosters for immunocompromised patients in his round of talk show appearances yesterday.
There’s nothing stopping anyone from getting a 3rd shot, is there? Seems like you could just drop by your local pharmacy and say it’s your 1st or 2nd shot. Just don’t provide insurance information if did for the original round.
Not that I’m recommending this at all, it just seems like there’s no controls or tracking in the system.
Maybe vax sites run names through the state’s vaccinated database?
Probably varies by state. I don’t think my state has a database like that. At least I don’t remember anyone asking for SSN or driver’s license number when getting the shot, and insurance information was optional.
We have mused about that, but in general, I like my decisions to be based upon data rather than “spookiness” (for lack of a better word). That’s why I wish there were more data to look at to try to figure out which “group” we’re in risk-wise.
I know I like being out and about again, visiting, wandering, etc, plus I told them I’d return to school in the fall (as a math/science sub part time), but I know I also like avoiding Covid - esp with a son who was a long hauler in his 20s. If there’s a genetic component, mine could be iffy.
@Creekland I know you mentioned clinical trials awhile back. Would you be eligible for one that could get you a booster?
If I were you, it would be interesting to do a different vaccine for a booster. I think they are looking more closely at mixing different types of vaccines in the UK now. Is there a study going on for that?
Also, is there a trial for a smaller dose of Moderna now?? Maybe it’s for children or a booster….I can’t remember.
My D got Pfizer. She’s young and had it more recently, and she had a longer interval, so I’m hoping it’s good for her.
If I were to get vaccinated today, I would get Moderna and while I was waiting for the second shot, I would watch the research coming out.
I am ineligible for all the vaccine trials I’ve seen due to my seropositive immune status.
The doses for children are being tested at about 1/3 of adults -something about 10 units vs 30 units for adults?
Does anyone know where there’s a list of recruiting trials for boosters? I’d definitely be willing to be in a trial.