From that article ““While we should continue to insist that pharmaceutical companies stop using abortion-derived cell lines, given the world-wide suffering that this pandemic is causing, we affirm again that being vaccinated can be an act of charity that serves the common good.””
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Um yes. Vaxed folks are indeed taking such “risks” if restaurant seating and airports are any indication. The vaxed people we know are making up for lost time with family and friends. The vaccine has done much to restore public confidence. Anecdotally, we haven’t heard of anyone we know experiencing a breakthrough case, but it’s still summertime and most got vaccinated in the spring.
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This is not an accurate representation and the topic has been discussed in depth up-thread so no need to repeat here.
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How would parents even know if their 18+ year old was vaccinated?
“CAN be an act of charity”
It’s expressing possibility. In this case, it’s giving permission to those who would normally have reservations due to the fetal cell issue. It’s a reassurance that it’s okay for them to get vaccinated and letting them know that despite everything it could be a considered a charitable act.
So you see, this statement was made out of concern for the consciences of the faithful and recognizes that the default position might be to avoid the vaccines altogether. It was not meant as a public health mandate to be vaccinated.
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Does your conscience oppose chickenpox or rubella vaccines, which often are mandated by states for K-12 attendance?
See explanation by Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia
“ Vaccines for varicella (chickenpox), rubella (the “R” in the MMR vaccine), hepatitis A, rabies (one version) and COVID-19 (one U.S.-approved version) are all made by growing the viruses in fetal cells. All of these, except the COVID-19 vaccine, are made using fibroblast cells. The COVID-19 vaccine (Johnson & Johnson (J&J)/Janssen) is made using fetal retinal cells.”
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@Hippobirdy I’ve discussed this at length earlier in the thread so I’m not going to go into detail again. But, yes, I oppose them. My kids have been vaccinated against them anyway because of what I consider to be “grave” risks. There are some people who might refuse those vaccines across the board, but I am not one of them.
I lament the lack of options.
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My 20 year old nephew says he is not getting vaccinated since he’s had COVID. Sis is thinking of telling him vaccinated stuin is required if he wants to keep living at home.
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Would sis be satisfied if he got a reliable antibody and/or T cell test, and he agreed to get vaccinated if he did not have evidence of strong immunity?
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If you got an early measles vaccine in the 1960s, it may not be that effective, which would suggest getting a booster for measles.
Mumps immunity apparently does fade so that mumps booster may be required for older adults to have immunity.
Since you are concerned about connections to an abortion, that applies to rubella vaccines available in the US, so you may have to look for measles and mumps vaccines rather than the commonly available MMR.
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I’m curious how people are getting tested for antibodies? Is it because they are donating blood? Maybe I’ll suggest that to my husband because I’d like to know how the vaccine worked for him, as he has autoimmune issues.
We don’t have a local blood bank here in the boonies where I live. Feels odd as that hasn’t been the case where I’ve lived before.
I think I probably got whatever was available around 1970 and definitely got a booster around 1990.
No individual measles, mumps or rubella shots have not been available in the US for many years now as far as I can tell.
I would get a booster again if my doctor thought I needed it because of the risks of those diseases. I have four daughters so rubella is especially relevant to my situation.
My primary care doctor orders my antibody tests and I go to Labcorp. Quest also has antibody tests. You can talk to your doctor about it. There are a variety of tests available in those labs and your doctor might have a preference.
It is possible to order the tests on your own through the Labcorp or Quest websites. They work with telehealth doctors who will approve the testing and write a script. I think it’s usually automatic, though.
I think people who have been vaccinated are getting the semi-quantitative test now because it provides a number that can be watched over time with repeat testing. At this point, however, no one knows what number is the magic number for immunity.
The T-cell test is available through a website of a company that is in partnership with Labcorp. You have to go through the company’s website and get a script from your doctor or their telehealth provider, which may be the same one Labcorp uses. Labcorp does the blood draw and sends it in for you. It requires a special lab and involved testing so it’s expensive.
In the first SARS, they found T-cell immunity lasted very long, maybe ten years or more.
It is possible that people who have had SARS cov2 but aren’t showing antibodies, may have had a robust T-cell response which wiped out the infection so they never needed to make antibodies.
Also, vaccine effects can vary in terms of T-cells and antibodies. I think J&J may have been touted for producing strong T-cell immunity. That’s why caution is required for vaccinated people wanting to check if they have immunity. Just because you don’t have antibodies, doesn’t mean the vaccine didn’t work.
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So, if on one hand you have people whose education is The University Of Face Book And YouTube, and on the other hand you have world experts in virology, you’d “choose the Middle”?
I’m sorry, but there isn’t any “middle” here, any more than there is a middle in the arguments between flat-earthers and astronomers. There is no “middle” between scientific expertise and uninformed opinion and conspiracy theories.
There isn’t “right” or “left” here. The fact that a bunch of power-hungry evil politicians are trying to claim that the pandemic is an invention of the “Liberals” and of Bill Gates doesn’t make it so. The fact that the pandemic started during the presidency of a Republican, doesn’t mean that it is a Left Wing Conspiracy.
I am again sorry, but the virus is not a registered member of any political party, and there is no difference in how it affects a person whether they are left wing or right wing. The vaccines protect Republicans as well as they protect Democrats.
There is no "left or "right " here. There is science and ignorance, caring about others and selfishness, expert opinion and conspiracy theories. There are people who listen to science experts, versus those who listen to ignorant talking heads on Fox News or Conspiracy Theories out of Russia or Iran.
Massachusetts and Vermont have Republican governors, and they listen to the same scientists and experts as the Democrats of New York.
From what I heard while I was there, there are indications that this is the case. The older adults were vaccinated back in January, and it has been about 6 months, and there seems to be a much higher infection rate among that group. It may be a mix of the vaccine wearing off and older people with lower response rates from the beginning.
They were taking about starting booster shots for the immunocompromised soon
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Did Israel, like lots of places, offer vaccine to health care workers first? If so, then it would be that the higher rate of breakthrough infections among the earliest vaccinees is due to health care workers getting breakthrough infections due to more frequent and higher virus volume exposure events.
On the Sunday Morning talk shows, the experts were talking about the reinfection rates. The CDC is only keeping track of breakthrough infections if the person is hospitalized (or dies). If you test positive but are asymptomatic or aren’t admitted to the hospital, they aren’t tracking when you were vaccinated, where you might have picked it up, treatment, severity, etc. The experts said the CDC is looking to Israel for that data.
There is no data on whether those who are older and were vaccinated actually got immunity. My mother was in the early group (late Jan/Feb) and had no reaction at all. She’s undergoing cancer treatment and some other medical issues, is 85+ years old. Does she have immunity? Has she just been lucky and not caught covid?
I think there are a lot of people who got the vaccinations but it didn’t provide immunity. No way to know.
My mom is 91–she and I got our shots Jan/Feb. We both only had sore arm at injection site. We have no idea what level of immunity we may have. H got his shots when I did and was in bed for hours 12-48, feeling really poorly.
My lung doc says reaction to shot is no indication as to whether or not your body has robust immune response to covid. No idea how we can know.
Why wouldn’t the CDC want this data?? There’s more than just the Pfizer vaccine as far as data. There seems to be different data results coming from Israel vs the UK and how effective Pfizer is against delta. And what about those that received moderna, J&J and AstraZeneca? These are the people/scientists we are supposed to trust? And people wonder why there’s skepticism of the advice from the “experts”.
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Yes, and what you are saying makes a lot of sense. We’ll see probably see the data as soon as there are larger numbers. Or, hopefully, number will stay low, and won’t be enough to come to any conclusions…
I actually don’t keep track of those things, but I don’t think I’ve had any update of MMR since my grade school days when we all lined up in the hall and the nurse went down the line. I’ll let the doctor decide if she feels I should have a booster. I tend to keep up on Tetanus because we live on a farm giving us added risk.
I wish we would keep track of a lot more data. I’m guessing it’s a money issue?
I really wish all types of politics could stay out of medical things like this. It’s really, really frustrating seeing the two entwined.
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