Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

It will be interesting to see how this develops. VERY few people belong to faiths that preclude medical interventions. In reality about 0.33% of the US has a real claim to religious exemption. I would guess even fewer have legitimate medical excuses not to get vaccinated.

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I’ve read religious exemptions that were accepted - you do not have to belong to a specific church/follow a certain religion. Religion is a very personal thing, and you can pretty much say anything you feel as long as you can provide support for your view(s). Bible verses can be interpreted in a number of different ways by different people.

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I think that is going to depend upon where you live. Only a few have permanent medical exemptions. Far more received temporary medical exemptions, because they either had covid or certain treatments for it recently, and their doctor asked for a 90 day extension before vaccination.

One does not need to belong to a faith that eschews vax or medical intervention to qualify for a religious exemption. The standard is a sincerely held rigorous or spiritual belief. The EEOC guidelines state we must assume sincerity

Maybe it will be determined to be a states rights decision. Six state and all the outlying territories do not provide for religious exemptions.

It depends upon the context, for example is it a job related mandate or a school mandate.

Could some religious exemptions also be temporary? For example, if someone successfully claimed a religious exemption based on an abortion connection, wouldn’t that exemption end if a vaccine without any abortion connection became available?

Yes, for example once such a vaccine was approved and distributed.

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I am sorry for your situation. You are correct that a surprising number of Catholics seek ( and obtain) exemptions.

Does she follow the Catholic church’s statement that “Those who, however, for reasons of conscience, refuse vaccines produced with cell lines from aborted fetuses, must do their utmost to avoid, by other prophylactic means and appropriate behavior, becoming vehicles for the transmission of the infectious agent.”?

Presumably, they are willing to wear masks indoors and practice social distancing as needed to “do their utmost to avoid, by other prophylactic means and appropriate behavior, becoming vehicles for the transmission of the infectious agent”?

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That’s how I feel about my uncle. I’ve lost some respect for him, actually. :cry:

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@blubayou, I am not missing most of those subtleties. My recollection is that people have suggested some of those things. For example, if I recall correctly, someone suggested that Jacobsen v. Massachusetts would likely not withstand legal scrutiny and certainly couldn’t be extended to other settings, which thus far has not been a good prediction. I will say that I don’t spend a lot of time crafting the words in my posts, which I do with more serious writing.

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Yes, they do agree to the accommodations. And just a reminder that employers are none too eager to be having these conversations to begin with, and even less eager to document them. We do have real work to do.

One additional complaint. We addressed exemptions in my company this week, as those without exemptions will need to get their first shot of Moderna (if that is their brand choice) by this Wednesday, Oct 24, in order to comply with the federal contractor mandate. We are still awaiting OSHA guidance on exemptions, which is overdue and now expected sometime in the next two weeks. Exemption guidance published after the date needed to initiate the shots is useless.

That is annoying though not surprising

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I genuinely don’t understand people who think masks are dangerous or that masks don’t work. If someone says that to me I will ask, “If your child breaks their leg or gets appendicitis and needs surgery, are you ok with the doctors and nurses not wearing masks in the operating room? That is perfectly acceptable to you?”

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Or even a dentist not wearing a mask, or food prep people not wearing hair nets or working with a severe cold without a mask or sneeze guard? We’ve been wearing masks, gloves, and other protective gear for decades.

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I’m so sorry.

That’s the thing – anti-vaxxers have already decided that there is no such thing as a fact (despite a world’s worth of evidence to the contrary, including “bridge stays up”) and that fact-dependent argument is just a game. Their “facts” don’t actually have to be factual. It’s why you get all this weird goalpost-shifting and arguments dropped as soon as they hit any resistance, and jumping to something new, nonsensical, or unrelated. It’s Debate, the home version. The point is they’ve heard a narrative they’re happy with from people they like and feel are “their people”, again whether or not they actually are, and it doesn’t matter what proportion is fiction. Or badly-made fiction. They’re happy living inside it until one day reality comes knocking, which is inevitably a total bewilderment.

There’s a huge market for tabloids and true crime, too. A lot of people don’t really see how intimately bound up with “reality actually matters” their lives are, or how intensively tied to structures of everyday life involving many, many other people and their intentions – as far as they’re concerned, things work because they work, they’re strong and independent people captaining their own ships on the open sea, and if you need a story about how this all came to pass, you can always make one up, doesn’t matter.

This was the huge stomach-dropping moment for me with Brexit – the argument for joining had always been tenuous, because good luck engaging most people in disciplined conversation about tariffs and currencies and central banks and global trade, but when it was argued, that push happened 25 years ago. Everyone had forgotten. The public no longer knew why they were part of a customs union, or what one was. And the narratives about why things were as they’d grown to be – you could dream one up and slap it on the side of the bus, and if it resonated with some intense sentiment of the moment, that was the story.

Unfortunately, when things then fall apart for obvious reasons, all you have to do is find you a good scapegoat, and on society rolls with bits flying off. And, in this case, over 730K dead as of today.

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