I can talk to her, and would see her outdoors. We live not near each other at all. I wouldn’t stay at her home and don’t welcome unvaccinated folks to stay at my home.
So…would I purchase a plane ticket, rent a car, stay in a hotel? Probably not.
If I happened to be near where she lived, I would try to plan an outdoor lunch or something like that at a restaurant.
I talk to her at least once a month. She always mentions her vaccination status when we talk…and the conversation usually goes down Hill from there even though I make no judgment comments about her position…I just listen. But I will say…it does end the calls!
You’re certainly free to think as you wish. I agree it’s probably not smart for unvaccinated individuals to visit vulnerable relatives. There are other precautions that can also be taken to make visits safer though such as masking, distancing or meeting outdoors. The reality is even a vaccinated individual can transmit covid to a vulnerable person so other precautions are probably advisable anyway.
It sounds like the biggest issue is the conversation going off the rails. That’s a shame and I can understand you wanting to end the conversation there.
I haven’t had much of a choice the last 18 months as far as exposure. I have had to work in-person and have been required to travel. I even travelled for work last summer before vaccines were available. In the end my work went on and I needed a paycheck. Maybe that’s part of why I think a little differently. Many have had to keep working through the pandemic to keep the country going.
I get it and know many who feel the same way. It has taken me most of my life to get to a point where I accept that human beings will sometimes make choices that are perplexing and to still love them as they are (instead of how I want them to be). I live in a state where over half the population is still unvaccinated, and I can see that vaccine reluctance is tearing some families apart. My family has survived a lot of traumas and heartaches over the generations (I assume most families have), and for me personally, I am going to stick with the folks who had my back when I had nothing regardless of our disagreements. Sure, we might have to make accommodations so that everyone is comfortable and feels safe, but I won’t judge or think less of them. If I only dealt with the family members who agreed with me (even half of the time), I don’t think that I would have much family left in my life.
That’s the issue, though. The people I’ve learned aren’t vaccinated do NOT take precautions because they are the same people who feel they don’t need to wear masks.
But when you ask them how they’d feel if someone lit up a cigarette at the table next to them you get “that’s different!” It’s not, it’s all about individual sacrifice, voluntary or not, for the good of the collective.
I figure people are making different vaccine decisions because (1) they get their news from a different source, (2) politics, (3) peer pressure and (4) the scientific peculiarities of how human brains make decisions. There are forces stronger than individual choice at play. I do believe in the fundamental decency of people, so for people to depart from that, the forces at play are potent.
I can look past all of that with people I love, though it would be harder if I could draw a direct line between someone I know who is unvaxed and someone who died/is seriously ill.
I focus my anger at political and social leaders who actively promote the anti-vax position and spread misinformation (especially if they are vaxed themselves). It is like with opioid addiction - the drug kingpin has more moral culpability than the junkie, because the kingpin is exploiting known human flaws, and killing people for profit.
The sister of a friend of mine died in January 2020 from a disease that progressed much like Covid. I’m inclined to think it might have been since she had just come back from a trip to China. But we’ll never know.
I agree that people are deeply affected by the social environment and someone who is in a community that only gets Fox and OANN and where community and family members are not only anti-vax but consider that those who get vaccinated are traitors or sheeple will find it hard to get vaccinated, so one can’t only blame the person. But, it does not take excessive mental acuity to realize that this is not just a personal decision but that if you get infected, you will likely be harming others. Choosing to frame vaccination or mask-wearing only as an issue of one’s own freedom of choice and choosing not to give any weight to the potential harm to others is a choice, even if you have made that choice largely by osmosis. On the whole, I prefer not being around people who frame the world in terms only of their needs without considering the needs of others.
I think we are heading to a yet more difficult political period in which segregation along those lines will take place. I won’t hire or retain anyone in my business who is not vaccinated or will not wear masks – fortunately neither is an issue. But, we are doing a significant renovation of our house and two members of the general contractor’s team choose not to get vaccinated. One of them we really like – great guy and he did a great job on ShawWife’s studio. But, we told the general contractor not to use him on our job (the GC had already decided not to on his own). ShawWife talked to the guy and he said, “I though you wouldn’t have a problem with my not being vaccinated because we have a great relationship.” She said, “We love you but as you know, I am at risk. We can’t have people around increasing the risk for me. We thought if you wanted to work with us (and we want you to do so), you would get vaccinated.” Not unpleasant on either side as there is clear mutual respect. So, things will just get segregated.
A few other examples as well.
Similarly I have heard that there is mutual segregation on dating sites. Vaxxed people only want to date vaxxed people and anti-vaxxers only want to date anti-vaxxers. I suspect there are some non-vaxxed who would say they are not anti-vax who would date either but the vaxxers probably won’t date them.
Yes, but the point is most people don’t get any kind of antibody test and just assume that cold they had in December or early 2020 was Covid. Wishful thinking usually.
If they did not have a COVID-19 positive test while infected (not available during those months), then they could have verified by antibody testing before vaccination, or nucleocapsid antibody testing after vaccination. But how many actually did?
While those who had COVID-19 are probably roughly similar to vaccinated people in terms of risk of COVID-19 (again), they still benefit from stronger immune response by getting vaccinated in addition. So if any with verified prior infection refuse vaccination, it is likely that they have other reasons beyond any stated reason about already having bad COVID-19.
I can’t think of anything that would stop me from still liking and enjoying my family and friends, but yes, those who have chosen not to get vaccinated for non-medical reasons (only know one medical reason) definitely have me thinking either less of them or less of their intellectual capability, esp when they knowingly put other at-risk people (like FIL) in potential harm’s way (due to “freedom” or a “hoax”).
We have opted to trust our vaccines and continue on with life.
To be clear….I do like my life long friend. I don’t agree with her stance on vaccinations…but I like her. Having said that, as I said above, I won’t stay at her house, and frankly, I don’t want her here. It’s a plane ride away…so between hotels and airfare, I can’t imagine I will be seeing her soon…if ever.
My SIL and BIL were sure they had Covid in Dec 2019, but did get tested and had no antibodies. They had been of the lefty anti-vax-ish bent but when their kids were younger, they were forced to get their kids’ vaccinated because they either wouldn’t be allowed to attend school and/or were shunned by other families. With Covid, they got vaccinated quickly.