I think a lot of us felt this way- the big question is why did some of us move towards getting the vaccine and others run from it? I read reliable articles explaining how they came up with the vaccine. I also came to the reality that it was our best way to get out of this mess.
I know one thing- it would not have mattered which side was in charge, I still would have gotten the vaccine.
I just checked the NYTās data for ICU beds available around me. The closest hospital has none, and this is after doubling capacity by transforming rooms (according to our neighbor who works there).
The next closest hospital has 1 and has also transformed rooms.
Further away in a larger small city there are 7 so as long as the cardiac or car crash victim can make it there they have a chance. That hospital has 102 Covid patients (not necessarily all in ICU, of course - it doesnāt give the # who are). Itās not that large of a city - about 40K - so itās likely pulling in quite a few from neighboring areas.
The local hospital with 0 ICU beds has 24 Covid patients. The one with 1 ICU bed available has 21 Covid patients. Since most people who get Covid donāt need hospitalizing, there have to be a fair number of cases out there.
It definitely varies. Hopefully with more getting vaxxed and better treatment when things go bad it can all be improved, but cases in PA have been going up lately (+41% over the last two weeks), not down. Weāll see if that continues to hospitalizations (currently -5%). I donāt see where thereās room for up around us.
Come to think of it though, part of PAās increase is theyāre now counting people who have been re-infected with Covid twice, not once, and that added 15,000+ to the numbers last week. I bet NYT hasnāt adjusted for that spike. Perhaps thatās the entire increase? I can hope. Weāll know in two weeks.
It doesnāt change our currently overloaded hospitals though.
That NYT data is questionable. The nearest hospital to me is listed as having 2 covid patients and only .6 ICU beds open. Iām not sure how many total ICU beds it has, but it is a fairly large unit (I unfortunately spent some time in it a few years ago so I am more familiar with it than I would like to be). So, if it is full, it is not because of covid patients. Iām not sure what to make of this data.
In some regions they try to send all or most of the Covid patients to one hospital. It makes sense when hospitals are near each other.
@MarylandJOE, your post is either raising either logistical questions or a philosophical one.
If logistical, one can address the issues you raise in more or less sensible ways.
If it is philosophical, do you object to any approach that causes those who voluntarily choose not to be vaccinated participating in the negative consequences of their choices? One of those consequences would be a different system of allocating hospital beds. But there could be others. So, is your objection logistical or philosophical?
I agree with @MaineLonghorn that choosing not to get vaccinated has a moral dimension. Just thinking about the decision-maker, if one chooses not to get vaxxed, one has a much higher probability of getting infected and a much higher probability of incurring high costs if one gets infected. So, choosing not to get vaxxed imposes higher expected costs on others (those of us who pay taxes and/or pay for health insurance.). In an ideal world, shouldnāt the folks who choose not to get vaccinated compensate the others for the costs they are imposing? Someone with a history of drunk driving will no doubt pay much higher insurance premiums (if they can get insured at all) because there is a higher probability of accidents.
Then, there is the higher probability of infecting others, some of whom will get sick (and need care we all have to pay for) and/or die (likely after expensive care). The incrementally higher probability of infecting others is also a financial cost and, in the case of othersā deaths, moral cost. Iām sure that the incremental car insurance premium paid by someone with DUI history would include the potential costs incurred because of injury and deaths to others.
Apparently, it is still the case that some non-vaccination or incomplete vaccination is due to low information or limitations on access, rather than active refusal. Consider this story from another thread:
Thanks so much @ucbalumnus for sharing my post here.
Iām still feeling tears about this situation.
Yes, the states keep track. This is part of what public health departments do. Even crummy, underfunded ones. Alternately, you could be halfway responsible and keep your vax card in a safe and ready place. I lose everything routinely, but I can tell you where all my essential documents are. Itās also why I have a MedicAlert bracelet and why there are zillions of apps and other means of communicating with HCWs if you fall ill. Itās why demonstrators sharpie themselves with critical info before a protest where they expect police or fights. If you have a documented medical exemption I would suggest keeping it on your person or having that sharpie around with a phone number that can be used for verification.
Vax verification doesnāt happen by pony express. Itās part of your medical records. If you came in that sick and fragile, the key factor isnāt going to be āwas waiting on vax confirmationā.
If no one is advocating for you, you have to think ahead, because covidās not your only problem by a long shot. This is why Iām a non-wealthy person with a trust and mechanisms for not spiraling down the crapper if something happens to me and I canāt stick up for myself. (The issue you raise is why you also need to self-test if youāre sick but not sick enough to go to the hospital. If you have long-term symptoms it will be immensely helpful someday to be able to point to the date of a positive test.)
Fake cards will happen. No systems are fraud-free; thatās not a reason not to have systems.
Most people donāt have personal physicians anymore. Thatās mostly for rich people.
Deb, itās possible you donāt need to worry this much.
Heās retired and has time to come in.
I bet your county has outreach programs for rural vaccination clinics and visits. Theyāre aware that people donāt have computers and smartphones, and arenāt looking for this info, and plan their outreach accordingly.
There are also programs coordinating transportation to get people to clinics and pharmacies for vaccination.
The bigger question, to my mind, is whether heās on his own and off local/county/faith services radar with his mind failing. The fact that he hadnāt gotten his second shot means he forgot or or decided he didnāt have to, or didnāt bring his card with him to the second-shot appointment and then lost or forgot the one they gave him there. Also, the pharmacy should have access to a state vax database, so itās likely that he just never got the second shot, which is fairly common. Short of having people roaming the countryside with quickly-expiring vaccine to accost the got-first-skipped-second-not-vax-mandate-covered crowd and top them up, thereās not really a great way of dealing with this.
Not all states have that information. In PA reporting is encouraged but optional.
Managed by the Pennsylvania Department of Health, the Pennsylvania Statewide Immunization Information System (PA-SIIS) is a confidential, computerized immunization registry that records vaccine doses administered and reported by participating providers in Pennsylvania (excluding Philadelphia). It was developed with the goal of achieving complete and timely immunization data for all people, children through adults. In Pennsylvania, reporting vaccine doses administered to PA-SIIS is voluntary, with the exception of COVID-19 vaccinations; however, health care providers are strongly encouraged to participate as there are many benefits to participation.
Looks like covid vax reporting is mandatory.
It does but itās the government, two of my Dās friends who lost their vaccine cards tried to get one through the state and they didnāt have their information.
The questionās whether the hospital would be able to see it. If the hospital has access to the state database, then there you go.
If the problemās that the pharmacy or clinic was noncompliant, then your friends have to go back to them and say āDo it.ā And Iād suggest reporting the pharmacy to the state.
In PA I recently had to enter my vax information (lot number, date, place) into my doctorās office file because neither they nor the state had it. We got ours at CVS back in March/April. Something got lost and not reported along the line.
H went to the same CVS, but different dates, and had to do the same.
They received their shots at a mass vax site. They gave their vax info to their PCP so theyāre currently carrying their immunization record. Not super convenient. The CDC needs to figure out a better way to replace these cards if theyāre going to be required as a part of daily life.
Or concerned citizens can help them do it! Like when the fine folks at Healthsherpa looked at the shambles the ACA website was on rollout and just went off and made a solution!
You know, thereās this unending stream of complaints and goalpost-shifts about why the vax is just no good and shouldnāt be necessary or required. Thereās a pandemic with a difficult and dangerous virus. The vax development and rollout has happened at warp speed and with astonishing safety and efficacy. Once we stopped having a muzzled CDC and had only the usual crumbs-at-communicating CDC, we had N95s a-plenty, home test kits for sale with tax benefits, and fairly plain messaging to the effect of DO ALL OF IT: MASK, VAX, DISTANCE, PAY ATTENTION, PROTECT VULNERABLE PEOPLE, LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS.
And now youāre complaining that itās too much hassle to carry a piece of paper? So someone else should fix this problem, because theyāre not, say, fully engaged in trying to get all the kids vaxed and info out about use of the new drugs?
Really?
I think it was more about the fact that someone wanted a vaccine but couldnāt get one.
I live in a rural area that does not have a high vaccination rate. 47% fully vaccinated, I looked. Our hospitals are full, our infection rate is going up.
And no one thought it was a good idea to help a man who needed it
Yes I am. Because if youāre going to require people to show a document to gain access to pretty much everywhere you need a way to replace it if itās lost, damaged etcā¦. The federal government employs a ridiculously large number of people so I have faith, misplaced though it may be, they could allocate a few of those employees to figure out a way to replace Covid vaccine cards. Or they could not require people to show vaccine cards to live their lives and thatās a very easy and cost-effective way to solve the problem. Take your pick.
