Worse outcomes, yes. But 99% of those under 65 who get covid will live. The infection fatality rate is under one-half of one percent for middle aged adults, and vanishing small for children, teen and young adults, despite whatever co-morbidities they may have.
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I donāt disagree, but death is not the only bad outcome of covid. Long covid has been estimated to affect from 20% to 30% of those infected, even those who had asymptomatic cases are at risk of long covidā¦time will tell on this data.
With all of that said, risks are small for vaccinated and boosted people and I support these folks living their lives. I also do not support any type of lockdown or remote schooling.
I have seen this data too and it does seem very clear.
I am perplexed though as to why states that have had mandated indoor masks for most of the last 20 months donāt have statistically better infection numbers (whether case counts, hospitalizations, or deaths) than states where indoor masking has not been mandated. I donāt think the weather explains this data, we have lived through multiple different seasons at this point.
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I can name off the top of my head at least 15 people who have or have had Covid since Thanksgiving. All fully vaccinated except one and some boosted. The unvaccinated case had very mild cold symptoms for about three days. Everyone else has had mild to moderate symptoms with a few days of fever and congestion and significant fatigue. One treated with monoclonal antibodies, an extremely high risk 80+ year old but not hospitalized. Doing much better now.
I am vaccinated and happy to have the protection of the vaccine against hospital but I have no intentions of getting boosted at this time. Even the boosted are getting Covid and are able to spread it ( see Elizabeth Warren, and Cory Booker) including at least two that I know.
I do not feel at this time that the unvaccinated are posing any more risk than the vaccinated. Their choice is only affecting their own personal outcome as they are taking more risk with severe outcome although the one unvaccinated person I know had the mildest symptoms of all.
Itās here, itās real and it can be severe but this is NOT a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
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i think that in private homes/places, is where the masks are not worn. So the spread is likely not in your local walmart, but rather the small 8 person gathering that occured. In restaurants it never made sense to wear a mask to be seated , but once seated you can take it off.
Now this weekend I did my typical cat adoptions and wore a mask the entire time I was in the shelter. A few weeks ago when case number were really low in my area I did not. A few months ago I was in an office for work, and wore masks and someone ended up with Covid, but the rest of us did not get it. Would we have gotten it if us fully vaccinated folks were maskless, who knows.
So the indoor mask mandates dont solve the private gathering issue.
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Frist of all, let me just say that we donāt have a full understanding of this virus. Thereāre so many variables. Not too long ago, I spent a few weeks in an area where indoor masks were mandated. However, I noticed compliance varied significantly from one place to another, even in hotels. For example, at one of the hotels, the people working at the front desk only put on their masks when a guest who wore mask approached them (they wouldnāt even bother if the guest didnāt wear a mask). At that hotel, there was no enforcement and few wore masks as a result. Second, how one wears mask matters a lot, especially for oneās own protection. If the mask doesnāt cover oneās nose, it may help reduce the chance of infecting others if s/he coughs, but it certainly doesnāt do anything to protect her-/himself.
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Recent paper suggests that breakthrough infections are 4.5 times less likely to lead to long COVID than infections in the unvaccinated (of course, the risk of a breakthrough infection after vaccination is also less than that of an unvaccinated infection to begin with). Vaccination after infection also appears to reduce the risk of long COVID, but not as much as vaccination before infection.
Note: in this study, long COVID was found to afflict 38% of those who were not vaccinated before or within 12 weeks after COVID-19 diagnosis.
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Since January 1, 2020, deaths and cases per 100,000 population in various states:
According to Fact check: 9 states still have mask mandates , HI, IL, NV, NM, OR, and WA have statewide indoor mask mandates, and CA and NY have statewide indoor mask mandates for unvaccinated people. However, local governments may have their own indoor mask mandates.
Just found out another friend of ours from back when our kids were young is in critical condition with double pneumonia and Covid. Itās touch and go whether he will make it. Iām not sure of his age, but our kids are the same age so he canāt be too far off from us I wouldnāt think. I didnāt ask if he was vaxxed, but Iāve got a good guess.
I just finished showering and my mind couldnāt get off all the memories of things we did and places we went together with our kids. (sigh)
I just found out a young woman in our area died of Covid yesterday. Diagnosed Friday. I donāt know her vax status, but I do know the family she married into and how they think, plus she works in a school system, so Iād guess vaxxed. No matter which, I true tragedy.
This is in an area with a high vaccination rate and much better than average masking.
@Creekland You are one of my favorite posters here, and I probably see things the same as you do 99% of the time. I truly would feel so much better if youād consider masking in stores, etc. Places where mask-wearing is low tend to coincide with low vaccinations. I know you know that good masks protect the wearer as well as those around them.
And yes, I know this somewhat contradicts the tragedy I posted first, but I think it overall really doesnāt.
Anyway, wish you well either way, but knowing you were protecting yourself better would make me happy (and isnāt it really all about me 
?
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You say this like this like it is an acceptable level of risk. And like those people donāt put others who are more vulnerable at risk.
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It does not matter whether I think the risk level is acceptable or not; it matters whether most members of the public find it acceptable or at least not so terrible as to justify onerous lockdown measures to attempt to mitigate it.
We all could do more to limit others risks, and I support vax mandates, tho those do not appear popular. Anything more than that, I would not support, given the level of public risk. Hopefully those who are more vulnerable take adequate precautions for themselves if they wish to do so. The IFR rate is likely 15% for those over age 85, so presumably that is a priority for them.
A speed limit of 35 mph rather than 55 mph would greatly reduce the risk to others, but is not viewed as worth the tradeoff.
Not even close to the same thing. Driving 55 does not have a .5% mortality rate. If it did, you can bet it would be regulated.
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I didnāt claim it would. You can and should take actions to reduce your personal risk from covid. Your environment is largely outside your own personal control, and on any given day you may be unknowingly exposed to covid. Most people choose to continue with some version of semi-normal life anyway.
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Iāll ask that @roycroftmom and @mtmind continue their debate via PM, if it needs to continue at all so as not to risk slow mode yet again.
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In terms of policy making, there are still unanswered questions:
- How dangerous is Omicron to vaccinated people?
- How dangerous is Omicron to unvaccinated people?
- How dangerous is Omicron to health care (in terms of overloading)?
Unfortunately, we wonāt know for a little while. But many people have already committed to their positions in the absence of answers.
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One of the challenges of the pandemic is that decisions will need to be made before all the available information is received and verified on order to be effective.
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Of course, it should then be unsurprising that some of the decisions and choices end up being the wrong ones in hindsight. (But, as politicized everything is, the decision makers will never admit they were wrong, while their opponents will claim that they are always wrong and not to be trusted.)
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NY has an indoor mask mandate for all (vaccinated or not) but several counties have announced that they will not enforce it.