Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

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6716

But what? Those 1 in 400 are dead. Many of those 1 in 400 might still be alive if they had been vaccinated. From a recent NY Times article, “Since vaccines became widely available in April, nearly 250000 people have died from Covid -19 in the United States.”

And what’s your point? That because I personally know people who have suffered, but many people don’t know people who have suffered, the reality is diminished? Or is your point that we should get vaccinated if we have directly been affected by Covid? Or is the point that we should only be concerned about the havoc this has wreaked on all our lives if we’ve been personally affected?

This is another factor as to why people who are doing all they can to be safe and responsible feel frustrated and even angry with people who don’t take it seriously or who willfully ignore readily available true information. This chaos we are all living with right now might have been mitigated if people took advantage of something that will not only help keep them safe, but keep others safe too.

It’s upsetting to know that there are people who haven’t been affected, or they don’t think it’s a problem, or they don’t trust vaccines (guaranteed they’ll trust modern medicine the second they go to the hospital, or the second their scrip is late at the pharmacy, but that’s different, right?), yet still won’t get vaccinated, or even wear masks. They think of themselves and think they have nothing to do with what’s going on right now. They don’t do their part to help all of us get back to a normal life.

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6717

Perhaps the point is that, in a low trust society like the US, personally observed anecdotes (“seeing is believing”) are more convincing than large sample size data from faceless others they do not know or trust. If someone’s social circle saw only minor COVID-19 cases without long COVID, they may think that it is no big deal. But someone who saw people around them dying or going to the hospital or getting long COVID may think the opposite.

Of course, this may not cover everyone, since some may have previously hardened their views based on politics or whatever so much that a contrary personality observed anecdotes may not change their mind.

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6719

I understand your frustrations. My family is max-vaxxed. But I’m searching for better understanding, and to move the discussion along.

My point was that there is probably a subconscious ratio of survivors-to-deaths within one’s own circle that informs a person’s decision more so than any external recommendations, and that this may explain the age-related vaccine discrepancy @roycroftmom speaks of. This ratio is unfavorable for the elderly, so even though that population historically trends toward the political side that is more hesitant, the elderly are the most vaxxed because of the unfavorable ratio.

@ucbalumnus also had good insight into the figures I provided.

This also plays out in my circle when parents are vaxxed, but they refuse to vax their age-eligible kids based on their perceived risk for young kids. Better ratios.

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6720

I think the point is that for many people, there really is no chaos. In many places, life continues mostly as it has pre-covid; although in some other places the restrictions have been substantial . Some believe that conflicting reports from the CDC have seriously diminished the credibility of that agency;some experts oversold the covid risk to young adults and school kids. My kids are all boosted/masked, but they now know probably 100 friends who have had covid with no serious side effects. Perhaps one of their friends might have an elderly relative who was a victim, but if so, they are unaware. They socialize exclusively with those aged 16-24 year olds and know few in other age groups well. I think their experience is common in that age group.

About 25% of covid deaths were under age 65. If one knows few senior citizens, it is quite possible one knows no covid victims.

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6721

Not even very unpleasant sickness for a while, or long COVID? Long COVID is common enough (even in younger people) that it seems unlikely that 100 cases would give no incidents on such.

My sample of two people in their 20s (no apparent pre-existing medical vulnerabilities) who got COVID-19 before there were vaccines had one asymptomatic (discovered by antibody testing) and one very unpleasant sickness for a few weeks with months of long COVID cardio issues, though they declined over time. Both got vaccinated as soon as they were able to.

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6722

I think the worst was flu-like for 2 days. Everyone else was fine. No long term issues anyone has disclosed. Friends are all young, under 25, or their younger siblings. Some infected pre-vax, some post-vax.

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6724

I’m seeing the same thing. I know tons of people who have had Covid. All ages. No long Covid in anyone I know.

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6725

A friend’s son in his 20s had severe enough complications he couldn’t work as an air traffic controller for awhile. He’s working now but still has heart issues. He was in great shape when he got COVID.

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6726

Same here. I know so many people who have had COVID over the last 18+ months and particularly in the last month. No one hospitalized, no one died, no long COVID. I just found out my nephew (21) has had COVID twice, once before vaccines in 2020 then again a couple weeks ago after 2 shots but before a booster. He just arrived in Barcelona for his study abroad semester. And was in Miami over his winter break. My best friend’s father is 85, fully vaxxed and boosted but never, and I mean never, wears a mask since the beginning. He’s been out traveling, dining, sports events etc…. He thinks we are all crazy to mask up everywhere.

I think vaccine uptake, to some extent, is linked to personal risk tolerance/fear. Fear is a powerful motivator. My family is fully vaxxed and boosted bc I want to maximize their protection from illness and death. The benefit to society is secondary in my calculations. I’m happy it helps society but I would support the vaccines even if their sole benefit accrues only on a personal level (as many other vaccines do). My perception is that many of the people who brush aside the vaccines aren’t afraid of COVID for whatever reason. We can debate the intelligence of that position or attitude but our opinions aren’t affecting their behavior much if at all at this juncture.

Fear and anger are often closely related emotions. People often lash out in anger when they are afraid. I see much of the anger directed towards the unvaxxed fueled by fear and frustration. The unvaxxed (and many vaxxed for that matter) for the most part, are not afraid and are living their lives. It seems that those with higher fear levels are the most angry about the current state of things.

If we are going to convince those remaining unvaxxed to get vaxxed we need to devise a new strategy/approach because being angry and/or condescending isn’t working well.

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I had a fully vaccinated family member get Covid in September, end of August. Probably delta because that was the time period where delta was rampant in our state. A medical professional due to the nature of the job, infected individuals would be mask free sometimes but my family member was always masked. Risk couldn’t be avoided.

Was not boostered at the time. Was so sick received monoclonal antibodies which at that time helped immensely.

After they recovered, their migraines were more frequent and intense. Said that was a symptom of having Covid. Because of the nature of their job, they knew that the more frequent migraines were most likely part of having Covid.

Lasted a few months. Would you call this long Covid? Yes, but the reason why this person knew that was because they were very familiar with the symptoms and nature of the disease.

Would everyone make that correlation? Maybe? Would even your family physician figure that out? Sometimes, maybe?

My point being that this disease is being so underreported and so misunderstood exactly what is happening, that there is so much we don’t know.

I could say the same thing about a lot of diseases and symptoms that are being overlooked. As much as we’d like it to be, medicine isn’t an exact science

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6728

Knowing how things work with a bell curve, there will be some people who don’t know anyone who had issues with Covid and some who know several. If genetics are at play, it’s likely even more are at those ends than would be typical for a bell curve. Most should be in the middle. That’s where I feel I am at. We know three people who have died, a couple more who had really rough cases but survived and are still recovering, and my son as a long hauler with a mild case. All others had it and got over it (and of course, some, like us, have not had it yet).

What is frustrating are those on the extreme of knowing no one with a bad case who continue to believe it doesn’t happen - or only happens to those who are medically fragile and would have died anyway. Then they act accordingly, often snuffing off any attempt at convincing them by saying, “oh, from what I’ve seen it’s nothing major.” They simply refuse to comprehend reality because it’s not their, personal, reality. If they are anti-vax (not all are), then there’s nothing that will convince them to get vaxxed other than if their job or similar is on the line - something they want/need.

I’ve reached the point of not bothering to try to convince them anymore. In their eyes they know more than the news, other people, and probably God, since of course, God is right there with them (assuming a belief in God).

It’s actually nothing new in the world. Humans have been the same since the beginning of time and are very susceptible to believing what they want to believe. Even Adam and Eve fell prey to the serpent’s tale because it looked good to them and they wanted it to be true. It doesn’t matter if one believes that particular story or not. The story is still there talking about what humans have done since near or at the beginning of recorded tales. There are many other examples throughout history. Nothing new is here simply due to the pandemic or politics.

We, personally, are vaxxed with boosters, choosing that group to be in for our odds. Then we live our life choosing where to go and where to stay away from. We’ll use masks if we feel we want to or someone asks us to - because, why not? Just to be mean or make a point? That’s not us .

Waiting for everyone to get on board isn’t happening - but a human side effect is I don’t care when those who believe the misinformation get bad cases and/or don’t make it. I feel a ton for those who tried their best and drew the short straw anyway.

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6730

Mind boggling. A “religious like crusade” to keep people alive and stop them infecting others? Wow. We’d be further down the right path if people got vaccinated.

I’m as selfish as anyone else. I want people to get vaccinated so my loved ones and I don’t die. When others get it, we are all more likely to get it. There’s nothing heroic about it. I want a normal life for me and my family, and for all of us not to get sick.

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6732

Mind boggling, it is. I get the sense that those who are opposed to vaccines and/or mandates are casting about for anything that might justify their position. When all else fails, might as well portray those trying to protect their own lives and the lives of others as religious fanatics.

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6733

Sad story. Unvaccinated guy almost died from COVID but talks about all the hateful people out there.

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6734

This guy rejects the science, endangers himself and others, unnecessarily occupies scarce medical resources, is ultimately saved by science but credits God and prayer. Then, for good measure, he insults and ridicules those who spelled out exactly how he could have avoided the entire situation in the first place. Hubris at its worst.

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6735

Good summary!

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