Yes, it is true for any transplant patient, other than one who gets something from an identical twin. But why would anyone want to choose an increased risk of needing a lung transplant over a vaccine?
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Tidelands seems to still be aligning with the stats heard on the news. Boosters matter. Vaxxes matter. Age matters.
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I love that Tidelands breaks this down. I confess I want even more dataâdoes boosted make a difference for, say, people in their 40s? The drum I beat most of the time is ânuanceâ. It is clear for those over, say 60, that boosters are super beneficial. Is that still true for younger folk?
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Iâd love to see a lot more broken down too - and from more than just one location. I especially want to know how many (of each group) are there because of Covid and how many are there irrelevant of Covid. That data can show things more accurately IMO.
But at least weâre getting something more than the basics.
From:
Case rates per 100,000:
| Months | Age | Unvaccinated | Vaccinated (not boosted) | Boosted |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Oct-Nov | 18-49 | 330.3 | 89.9 | 27.4 |
| Oct-Nov | 50-64 | 355.3 | 86.5 | 23.2 |
| Oct-Nov | >= 65 | 403.6 | 80.7 | 18.1 |
| Dec | 18-49 | 745.6 | 302.5 | 191.7 |
| Dec | 50-64 | 680.8 | 208.8 | 97.0 |
| Dec | >= 65 | 704.9 | 133.5 | 50.4 |
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San Diego County now tracking by boosted, fully vaccinated, and neither. I found the median age of cases in each category interesting. The less protected, the lower the average age for cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Very slightly skewing that data is that vaccinated includes age 5 and up, and boosted age 15 and up.
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Edit: quote from someone elseâŠâIf someone doesnât want the vaccine, thatâs a red flag that they already are not taking the steps to protect themselves and the transplanted organ they may receive. If they are not willing to do that, then maybe the transplant should be given to someone who does.â
If someone is morbidly obese or just grossly overweight and has the vaccine and boosters and gets Covid and dies, should we chastise them and say that they were not taking steps to protect themselves from death?
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Not quite apples to apples because transplant organs are scarce compared to the number of people who need them and as explained in excellent detail upthread require a lifetime of medications, follow up care, testing and so forth. If youâre unwilling to take a vaccine that protects you from severe illness and death why would transplant committees believe youâd follow transplant protocols?
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If someone is obese and is trying to protect themselves from Covid by getting the vaccine and booster and then sadly dies anyway, why would they be chastised?
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What if as a custodian to organs someone said I donât want them to go to someone vaccinated. Crazy and stupid. But, I feel the same way about punishing people who are unvaccinated.
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If two people are equal in every way: age, sex, body weight, medical condition
Both need a lung transplant and there is only one available
You talk to the potential patients and say:
Once you get the transplant, your body is going to see it as foreign and will try to attack it. This is your body ârejectingâ the organ. In order to prevent the rejection, you will now have to take immunosuppressive medicine for the rest of your life. This medicine prevents your body from attacking the organ, but unfortunately leaves you susceptible to contracting an infection. Normally your body could fight it off, but now it canât. You need to protect yourself as much as possible now, before we suppress your immune system. We want to make sure youâre up to date on all your vaccines, so we want to give you those shots now so your body can build a good immune response (T and B cells) while you have a robust immune system. If we wait until after you get the transplant, you might not be able to mount a response. One person wants the vaccines, one doesnât. One is taking the steps to survive and one is not.
Who gets the transplant?
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Iâd rather not argue about hypotheticals.
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Agree, happy to move on
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Two people are waiting for a transplant. One is younger with no other contributing health factors. Up to date on all vaccines except Covid. Doesnât drink and has a very healthy diet. The other is slightly older, moderately obese. Likes junk food. Drinks a fair amount. Has a few other comorbidities increasing risk. Overall generally more unhealthy. Has the Covid vaccine. Who gets the transplant?
I just donât see it as black and white as most of you do.
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Yes, itâs an awful situation to be in
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Itâs not black and white at all. Age, lifestyle, assessment of compliance, severity of the illness are always factors that transplant committees wrestle with for each and every organ.
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There are more than two people waiting for transplants for any particular organ that becomes available. Doctors are supposed to go with best option and use medical information to reach it.
Many people never make it to the top of the list.
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Yes, thatâs why I liked the movie about the committee. It showed how muddled the decision making can be. But itâs certainly fair for one of the factors to be whether a candidate is vaccinated.
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Thanks for the chart. Perhaps I should have been more clear; Iâm curious if the booster actually changes hospitalization rates/death at various ages. It will reduce infection, for ~10 weeks, from what Iâm reading. (Yes, yes, I understand that fewer infections will mean fewer hospitalizations. But what was the absolute risk in the first place?) My perspective on covid has changed over the last two years. Pre-vaccine and treatments (monoclonal antibodies, convalescent plasma, fluvoxamine, etc) I was all for locking down to love my neighbor and to not overwhelm healthcare systems. Omicron appears to be less virulent, we have vaccines, treatments, quality masks, and a better understanding of the disease, so Iâm settling into questions about what our endgame is. Is it to avoid all infections, or âmerelyâ to prevent hospital breakdown? I live in an area that is ~90% vaccinated and hospitals seem to be holding their own. I also am vaccinated (and boosted, fwiw) and have neither I nor anyone in my family have comorbidities that would put us at high risk if we contracted covid.
Please note that my thoughts, queries, and other wrestlings are in flux; I donât have answers and I certainly am not trying to create a one size fits all hammer for anyone. Iâm just reading and trying to separate out fact from fiction, to see what has changed over time, and what hasnât.
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Most organ transplant centers have the policy of no Covid vaccine, no transplant. And the ones who donât probably soon will. Patients who refuse are either not considered or inactivated from the list.
Anyone wanting a transplant has to be up to date on all vaccines. They have to have titers drawn to check levels. MMR, hepatitis A, B, HPV, influenza, polio, Tdap, Herpes, Pneumococcus, Hib, meningococcal. COVID is just another vaccine added to the list. Itâs really not news. The news is that itâs sad people are refusing the vaccine and choosing death instead. Itâs his body, his choice (referring to the man in the article) but he has children, including a fetus. Even that doesnât change his mind.
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