Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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7718

Had another 64 year old lady from our church pass away. They’re claiming it was due to “double pneumonia.” Never mind that she had Covid two weeks earlier - hospitalized for 17 days, was sent home for a short bit (12 days), then had to return and didn’t make it. I’m sure Covid had “nothing” to do with it, regardless that my medical guy tells me it’s fairly common, esp among those who don’t make it. They want to believe it was double pneumonia that killed her, and technically it’s true - most defeat the actual Covid virus before something like this kills them. But without Covid, chances are incredibly high that she’s still be with us - even if they don’t want to admit that.

To be fair, I don’t know vaccination status - nor did they share it, but knowing their “other” beliefs, I could place bets.

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7720

I seriously doubt they read anything on CC, and this thread is for sharing “other” thoughts and experiences. If someone’s loss can add to the “little voice” letting others know they’re believing anti-vax lies and misinformation, then that loss did “some” good. If not, no loss. Pass over my posts if you don’t like reading them.

Medical lad tells me it’s not just double pneumonia that often strikes later. It’s heart attacks and strokes too. Covid’s lingering blood clots can be nasty - and sad.

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7721

I think we are all aware on this thread of the covid risks. Families often obfuscate the reasons for death of a loved one-suicides are described as accidental falls, drug overdoses are attributed instead to cardiac arrest ( leaving out that it was caused by the drugs). The family has no obligation to disclose the details and will bear whatever decisions they and the victim made. It seems cruel to speculate and does little good.

You do not know the victim’s health conditions, or vax status. You could leave it at that.

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7722

New Study Suggests Red Wine Reduces COVID Infection Rates | Wine Spectator And yes it was published in other places besides wine spectator!!

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7723

It is wonderful of course, but not to take any precautions is a bit surprising to me. I went to a baby birthday party, because the the baby wasn’t vaccinated yet we were asked to refrain from socializing 5 days prior, do a PCR test 2 days prior and rapid test the day of. I would have thought at minimum they would have asked their guests to do a rapid test.

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7724

Of course, the details matter, although people tend to jump to conclusions without knowing the details. For example, was it planned with awareness of the 91-year-old’s fully informed preferences (and perhaps knowledge about any other medically vulnerable guests who are likely to want to attend)? Or was it planned without taking into account such preferences by someone much less risk averse than the 91-year-old?

There are also specific conditions that can matter, such as how well ventilated the restaurant is, whether the date/time chosen is a more or less crowded time, and whether the location of the restaurant and demographics of the customers suggest a higher or lower risk of other customers bringing virus in. Of course, whether the guests to the party are higher or lower risk of bringing the virus in can also matter.

7725

So you are comparing the choice not to attend a concert to the issues involved in transferring to a new school in the middle of the year? You are again ignoring the millions of families who do not have access to high speed internet access required for an online school.

I am not only talking about having the money to pay $1,000 a year for that access, I’m talking about that fact that many poor areas, and even many mid income areas, do not have access to high speed internet at all.

In the rural South it is the worst, with almost 1/3 of the families with school age students not having access to high speed internet.

Then, of course, you are ignoring the fact that poor children often have absolutely zero space at home. They don’t have any quiet private spaces to themselves.

The entire suggestion therefore assumes that every kid has:
A. Access to high speed internet
B. Income that allows high speed internet
C. Income for electronics with a screen and sound that are good enough for decent learning, and
D. a room in the home which is free for 6-8 hours a day.

Hundreds of thousands of kids do not have these.

And you are comparing the choice not to attend a concert to quitting work in the middle of the year, going on unemployment at best, not having work at worst?

Reality check: many teachers cannot simply “Choose find other work”. Their choices are: “work or starve”.

I’m sorry, but these two choices are choices that ONLY the very wealthy people have. The idea that underpaid teachers can simply walk out of their jobs without starving, or that parents can have their kids attend an online school without internet issues ignores the basic fact that millions do not have that sort of money.

Why do so many people here on CC seem to be entirely unaware of the conditions in which more than half of the people in the USA actually live? Sheesh.

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7726

For college educated professionals in this labor market, there are alternative workplaces available. To claim teachers will starve if they don’t work as teachers is silly. A substantial portion of homeschoolers are Southern and rural. One does not need electronics to homeschool; generations did it without.

Teachers and parents and students have had 2 years to consider their options in a covid-endemic environment. They will either abide by the prevailing community standard or opt out, just as some did when some accomodations were first implemented 2 years ago. Moreover, I don’t think anyone is preventing people from taking additional precautions for themselves if they wish to do so at any time.

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7727

One of the remaining members of my parents generation - with whom I spent many many hours over childhood and adulthood - just died of ‘endocarditis’. Yes, it was the final designation…but this person had been struggling with alcoholism for decades. Liver was shot…but the family doesn’t want that put out for public consumption. Understandably.

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7728

Since this is website focuses on colleges, I’d love to know how a college prof would grade such a statement.

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7729

An unvaccinated 7 year old died of Covid within a few days of diagnosis. She had myocarditis and brain inflammation. This is why we need to vaccinate as many people as possible. She could still be alive. She was a big sister to a newborn for one week. Heartbreaking. https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/wellness/story/parents-remember-year-daughter-died-contracting-covid-19-82908586?fbclid=IwAR1dghrfTg4DYfX8GC7K9_lR9K7Rm5KUefOh13bZ_dGDmqCISJjQcTLt1_s

Meanwhile, apparently an even more contagious variant of omicron is gaining ground in Asia. I wish there was a longer lasting vaccine.

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7730

A vaccine better matched to the newer variants would probably help better, since the newer variants seem to be getting further away from the ancestral virus that the vaccines target.

Among current vaccines in the US, it appears that the Moderna (x2) and J&J (x1) vaccine effectiveness is more durable over time (at least for 5-6 months) than the Pfizer (x2) vaccine effectiveness, so Pfizer recipients may have more incentive to get boosted. However, J&J (x1) vaccine effectiveness is lower to start with, so a second shot would still be something to look at to try to bring vaccine effectiveness up to the level of the two shot vaccines.

7731

“This is a big reason of why we don’t roll the dice on a virus like this,” Thomsen said of COVID-19’s unpredictably when it comes to who it affects and how severely. "

This is the part from that story that is my takeaway. I know researchers are trying to figure out the answer, but no one knows if they ever will. Since we have extra precautions that significantly lower the odds of being in the “bad” groups, why people don’t opt for them is beyond me (excepting those who have genuine medical reasons, of course). Worried about vax side effects? The side effects from Covid itself occur in higher percentages even when it’s not death.

Most people opt for vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, tetanus, and other diseases that might be encountered. We know Covid is out there at high rates, so taking any advantage one could is a no-brainer to me, esp since we (Creeklanders) are still out “living.”

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7732

For those of us looking forward to a real (random, etc) trial with Ivermectin, JAMA just posted the results from one:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/18/health/ivermectin-severe-covid-19/index.html

Same study in both links - different data emphasized - absolutely none showing Ivermectin helps.

A really big key:

In addition to the fact that ivermectin didn’t work, people who took it had more side effects than those who didn’t, and sometimes those side effects were severe, including heart attacks, anemia and diarrhea that led to shock.

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7733

Cheers! I’ll drink to that.

7734

Back during 2020 my aunt was having issues with dizziness and fainting, so she was seeing a neurologist. She was not driving at the time due to this and had a younger friend take her to the doctor but they refused to let the friend come in with her due to covid protocols, even though she was there for dizziness/fainting. They also did not have a nurse or anyone help her safely to where she was going. Of course, she wound up having a spell and fell face first breaking her nose, some ribs, and breaking some teeth. They called an ambulance to take her to the hospital, so she missed the appointment. The doctor was very nice and called to check on her, but they did nothing to compensate for her injuries. She later talked to some attorneys but no one was willing to take the case. She didn’t have the money to have her teeth fixed and wound up getting them pulled, but then they couldn’t get any dentures to fit her properly. They say the only option would be implants, which are even more expensive. So, she is in her 60’s and looks like will spend the rest of her life with no teeth.

7735

Ugh. My dad fell while on fall watch at the hospital. He broke his nose and some teeth. The administrators rejected our request to pay for medical and dental bills. We asked his patient advocate (an RN he paid hourly) to talk to them. She did and lo and behold they changed their minds.

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7736

Seems like that place had not thought through their COVID protocols. If they have situations where the rule is that the patient can bring zero others, they either need to have an exception for an assistant needed for medical or disability reasons, or provide such assistance to any patient who needs it.

7737

Dude, I AM a college prof (on and off), and I promise that I would not grade down a typo, nor would I grade the grammar or spelling on anything that was written in a non-formal setting, like, say, the forums of CC. However, I do tend to grade down statements that are based on unsupported assumptions, as well as logical fallacies, such as red herrings and deflections.

This is simply not true, unless by “jobs” you mean low wage jobs with no benefits, healthcare, or things like lunch breaks.

What are these hundreds of jobs that are open to people with a teaching certificate, and where do they exist? Maybe retail for $7.5 an hour, no healthcare, not paid time off, no job security, and the demand that the employee come 1/2 and hour early and leave 1/2 an hour after their day is over, an hour without compensation? Maybe waiting tables for $3.5 an hour, hoping that people will be pay enough in tips to pay for transportation and the cost of the clothing that is regularly ruined be food spills, not to mention having to pay for food that “costumers” steal, and having to take abuse from costumers, because your boss doesn’t actually care about you?

Those sorts of jobs?

You are also making the HUGE assumption that jobs are uniformly scattered across the country. There are very large areas in which there are very few jobs.

So are you saying that a teacher can simply pick up and move to a new city, uprooting their family, having their spouse quit their job, this kids change schools in the middle of the year, sell their house without losing money, etc?

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