I fully understand that there are many people out there who for whatever the reason, should not be vaccinated. But these people do NOT number in the tens (or a hundred) of millions. Too many people are hiding their phobias or crazy beliefs behind bogus medical reasons.
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Thatās kind of been the case for awhile now about all sorts of stuff. Health (including mental health) is cited - grownups and kids alike (no one here, of course! 
).
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Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Of course the death rate decline has slowed and thatās bcos those most at risk to death ā the elderly ā got vaccinated first; the elderly vax rate is in the 75-80% in many communities and they are protected.
But still significant, in terms of longer term after effects (loss of taste or smell, breathing issues, heart issues). However, when the focus is on death rate only, it is not surprising that many people underestimate their risks of something bad happening with COVID-19 (e.g. 26% of age 18-39 people recovered from COVID-19 have after-effects six months later).
They are probably marketing to peopleās charitable motivations, probably assuming that people have some self-motivation to get vaccinated against a serious disease. But they may be underestimating the level of awareness (or perhaps they themselves may not be very aware) of the potential serious effects (that are common among younger people, unlike death that is rare among younger people) and overestimating peopleās charitable motivations.
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Sure but when the vaccine became widely available (Mid April or thereabouts) the decline in the infection rate steepened but not the decline in the death rate. Again - maybe the lag is longer than Iām thinking - or maybe the vaccinations of the past six weeks have mainly benefitted those who were less inclined to have an adverse outcome anyway due to health, ethnic and/or personal choices about masks and social distancing.
Per teh NYT, the US death rate has fallen to the level of March ā March 2020.
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Covid should be taken seriously, obviously, regardless of the age of the infected. But of course the issues you bring up are differentiated between ālong termā (which can be defined as weeks) and āpermanent.ā Once recovered, itās pretty hard to hide an underlying serious heart issue and things like taste and smell tend to return. It just takes awhile. For the 50+ crowd, the adverse outcome isnāt a loss of taste and smell, itās hospitalization and death in the weeks following infection. Big difference.
Given that they were serving in an advisory capacity for the City of Chicago on matters of Coronavirus infection and Covid-19, they are probably fairly aware of potential serious effects on all ages. Given that the university community is famous for thought diversity, they are probably also fairly aware of the ongoing debates concerning over-reach vs. civic responsibility. And Iād view them as well qualified in matters of infectious disease and public health! Now, in matters of vaccination specifically, they rely on the IL Dept. of Public Health - this one they skipped ahead of IDPH but hinted that the department may eventually require it. That, of course, would be reason #4.
Even for 50+, loss of taste or smell, or other longer term effects, are still far more common than death. Yes, these are less serious adverse outcomes than death, but adverse outcomes nonetheless.
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My source is the JHU data and I look at the seven-day daily average for the US (since things can jump from day to day depending on when reported, etc). The average daily death rate of .184/100k from yesterday is about where it was on 7/08/20 and is about 17% lower than in mid-April. In contrast, the rate of infections in the same period fell 76%. Now one should understand that there is a lag; it can take several weeks to die of Covid. But looking at deaths in just the past two weeks (so the last half of May and one month after mid-April) it hasnāt really changed much. Gone up a bit, down a bit. Underlying these aggregate numbers would be the particulars in the various states and communities identified by the WaPo article and so there might be distinct things going on that arenāt captured in these aggregate numbers.
Maybe we will see a steeper decline in the death rate in the coming weeks. I hope so!
My MIL has cancer (not undergoing chemo at the moment, has basically no immune system). She got the vaccine but her doc said they donāt know if it worked for her and others like her. And there is no way of knowing. I am not sure why. But I believe her doc who is in the top of her field and at a top univ (which everyone on CC would agree with 
)
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I do feel like unvaccinated people are a danger (particularly when they are not being careful) to those who canāt be vaccinated, to older adults who are vaccinated, to those who have compromised immune systems, and because being unvaccinated allows for a greater chance of a variant which the current vaccines may not work against.
Comparing to MMR to COVID is not comparing apples to apples - there is not a high prevalence of MMR in our country right nowā¦because people got vaccinated years ago!
People know when they have the flu (or feel sick) which is not necessarily the case with COVID
Agree but for most they arenāt permanent. Covid is not a joke; even those young people with mild cases should be monitoring their blood oxi daily - and are better off not getting it in the first place. Anyone over 50, even if they fully recover, will be taking time off work on top of all the other concerns and worries. But people can minimize this simply by taking sensible precautions on their own initiative.
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There are plenty of asymptomatic flu carriers. No one has a good handle on how many (there hasnāt been any occasion to encourage widespread testing of even asymptomatic individuals as in the COVID pandemic).
This NIH-sponsored study suggests 33% incidence of asymptomatic flu. Pretty interesting the variability of individual biologies out there.
Does Influenza Transmission Occur from Asymptomatic Infection or Prior to Symptom Onset? - PMC.
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This is understandable but the data tell a different story at least for the older who are vaccinated. For instance, in my state there were 1200 Covid-related hospitalizations from Jan-April this year but only 10 of them were fully vaccinated. 10 too many, to be sure, but youād expect a less effective vaccine to result in percentages that were closer to the unvaccinated population. Vaccination works, and it works quite well. So much so that my parentās retirement community lifted the mask requirement for visiting family members who are fully vaccinated; they are now given free range of the place. Likewise, if the residents are vaccinated they are free to come and go and mingle with family for as long as they wish.
My state allows exemptions to vaccines in general, but we are a high-vax state to begin with. Still, we have known many children who are not vaccinated; my children have attended school with them and had playdates with them. They were good friends with several. Iāve never really worried that my vaccinated children were in danger. I am from a family with medical expertise so I wasnāt ignorant or unaware. My kids were vaccinated so they were sufficiently protected. My young children were inadvertently exposed to the meningococcal bacteria that almost claimed the life of a young acquaintance but that was a freak event - very scary. Everyone was interviewed by Public Health and no one was an anti-vax family (although I believe all the children involved were not age-recommended for the meningococcal vaccine at that time). Sometimes random bad things just happen.
[quote=āRookieCollegeMom, post:1272, topic:3498062ā]
People know when they have the flu (or feel sick) which is not necessarily the case with COVID [/quote]
This is true; not up on stuff like viral load or amount of initial exposure and subsequent disease severity; however, it was my impression that someone with asymptomatic Covid is less likely to spread enough infection to result in severe disease. They absolutely do spread infection - no question about that. The question is severity which, at this stage, may or may not be related to overall viral load but may be related to viral inoculum . . Of course, the more severe the symptoms, the less likely someone is to spread Covid and vice versa. Those feeling horrible or hospitalized arenāt out and about infecting everyone else. Now, all else equal, some might be predisposed to adverse outcomes even with smaller doses of exposure - we just donāt know enough about this virus yet.
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My 20 something year old son who had significant long hauler symptoms for over a year and had to take time off of work during his Covid days (due to symptoms, not ājustā Covid positive) would argue this with you if he were on this board.
You look at death, and yes, for sure, death is bad. But there are quite a few who have had life changing issues too - worse than him. Fortunately for him, getting vaccinated seems to have removed the long hauler symptoms, at least for now.
He is 100% pro vax for all who are able, youngsters included. He knows people donāt want what he had. The fact that it helps others is a bonus, but he sees the primary reason to protect the one being vaccinated.
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That is unfortunate about your son. Any parent experiencing this would understand your concern so that others donāt repeat your sonās experience. That your son is totally 100% pro-vax makes a lot of sense! His situation, though unfortunate, is also unusual.
Hadnāt heard that vaccination could remove long-Covid symptoms. The therapeutic aspect would be an interesting area to explore and I hope someone is doing so.
I think the biggest ācommunityā for the new cases and deaths have been the unvaccinated if youāre talking about the same WaPo article someone posted on here that I read. They may be smaller in percentages post vaccine, but that small percentage is still spreading it around themselves with folks suffering from it as if there were no vaccine.
@ucbalumnus posted this link on another thread:
My son had Moderna, so fits the profile of those most likely to be helped as per the article.
Being a long hauler isnāt all that rare TBH. My guy is not overweight, nor out of shape, nor any comorbidities listed. For whatever reason, he just drew a short straw. Weāve no idea why.
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Itās nearly 100% unvaccinated!! However, the various communities might be distinct or have distinct underlying conditions or predispositions to Covid.
Oh cool Thank you for re-posting. That is interesting. Yes, long-Covid isnāt all that rare. Some studies say that underlying factors such as age, weight and gender (women) are factors. So yes, your son drew a short straw. Hopefully some day weāll know a lot more about this virus.
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