Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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As ever, the problem with your choice is that it puts anyone who comes into contact with you at risk. So is your anti-mandate stance more important than exposing lots of other people to risk?

This isn’t about me, me, me. It’s everybody. I wasn’t worried when my son got covid. He almost exclusively hung around other people under 21, wore a mask everywhere, isolated as soon as he was diagnosed, has since been vaccinated, and appears to have suffered no effects from either the illness or the vaccine.

I was much more concerned when my brother, who does door security at a mega church, got covid and, afaik, didn’t do squat to change his routine. I am sure he spread it to other people in his demographic and older.

I am tired of people saying they aren’t worried about getting covid. All the dead folks didn’t get a say. It’s just as much about giving it to other people because no man is an island. Unless you never leave your house or literally live in a cave, you potentially expose another person to covid. Vaccinated people are extremely unlikely to do that.

The article @MaineLonghorn posted is excellent. Choose your poison.

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But it does seem to be about me, me, me. :frowning:

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I just got back from grocery shopping - quite the pleasant experience for me now that I’m fully vaccinated so don’t have worries about catching anything, esp since it’s rare to see a mask anymore and plenty didn’t wear them even when required.

That’s not a story in itself, but I was happy to see three masked people sitting in the “post Covid shot” waiting area this time. All three appeared to be related and by appearance are those who absolutely should be getting vaxed (weight, age). There’s hope that some reluctant folks are changing their minds.

A lady from our church who caught it died recently as have relatives of others. Things like that happening could easily change minds.

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This may be the survival rate, but there are plenty like my 20 something healthy with no comorbidities son who ended up being a long hauler - only helped once he got his Moderna vaxes. He’s strongly pro-vax for all eligible ages.

One family in our church had a not-so-elderly grandparent die from Covid after catching it at a family get together (Thanksgiving if I recall correctly). Contact tracing seemed to show some of their grandkids had brought it to the gathering. No one was eligible to be vaccinated then, but the idea that kids can’t give it to anyone is ludicrous.

I suspect it takes deaths of people one knows and likes or seeing long hauler effects first hand to have data truly sink in for some though.

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My son has the same viewpoint here. When he was basically not leaving the home , as much as it pained me for him to not be vaccinated I did understand his thinking. He also was not anti-vax, just
anti-not yet. His school is allowing an exemption that he is hoping to get.
BUT he now has a job where they have him coming into an office. They have not asked his vaccinated status, surprisingly and are not having wear a mask (I am in shock about this). Granted there are about 7-10 people in a space that used to house 50ish. So now his odds of getting Covid go up, and then what others are concerned about, spreading Covid. Also what happens if he does get sick; he is paid by the hour and has to do a certain amount of hours for his internship to count. So I am begging/pleading, etc for him to get vaccinated (he would only do the JnJ one) . He is sticking by his beliefs so far that Covid is not going to harm him, and we are still learning about the vaccines, (the issue with blot clots that came up, the heart issues that some young males get, etc). I know the arguments about why he should get vaccinated. The rest of us are. But he is over 18. If the school denies his exemption then I would think he has no choice.

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They are presumably taking the stance that vaccines have been easily available for a while, so that it is now a personal choice to play COVID-19 lottery without imposing much risk on those who do not want to play COVID-19 lottery (the latter presumably got vaccinated already, not possible before vaccines). Obviously, your son prefers to play COVID-19 lottery.

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Coming here late but -

I use the metaphor of the quilt. When I get vaccinated it is like I am contributing a square to a quilt, which will eventually protect everyone, even those who could not contribute a square. But if only a few contribute there will be many holes and none of us will be as well protected.

My vaccination not only protects me, it incrementally contributes to the protection of the population in which I circulate. And I am protected not only by my vaccine but by the vaccination of the community as a whole.

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As we speak of the Covid lottery:

" Hundreds of thousands of Americans have sought medical care for post-Covid health problems that they had not been diagnosed with before becoming infected with the coronavirus, according to the largest study to date of long-term symptoms in Covid-19 patients.

The study, tracking the health insurance records of nearly two million people in the United States who contracted the coronavirus last year, found that one month or more after their infection, almost one-quarter — 23 percent — of them sought medical treatment for new conditions.

Those affected were all ages, including children. Their most common new health problems were pain, including in nerves and muscles; breathing difficulties; high cholesterol; malaise and fatigue; and high blood pressure. Other issues included intestinal symptoms; migraines; skin problems; heart abnormalities; sleep disorders; and mental health conditions like anxiety and depression.

*Post-Covid health problems were common even among people who had not gotten sick from the virus at all, the study found. While nearly half of patients who were hospitalized for Covid-19 experienced subsequent medical issues, so did 27 percent of people who had mild or moderate symptoms and 19 percent of people who said they were asymptomatic."

More than half of the 1,959,982 patients whose records were evaluated reported no symptoms from their Covid infection. Forty percent had symptoms but didn’t require hospitalization, including 1 percent whose only symptom was loss of taste or smell; only 5 percent were hospitalized.

Ms. Gelburd said the fact that asymptomatic people can have post-Covid symptoms is important to emphasize, so that patients and doctors can know to consider the possibility that some health issues may actually be aftereffects of the coronavirus. “There are some people who may not have even known they had Covid,” she said, “but if they continue to present with some of these conditions that are unusual for their health history, it may be worth some further investigation by the medical professional that they’re working with.”

I wonder what the comparison numbers are for those who have been vaccinated. How many have had side effects or after effects requiring a Dr visit?

And what about a control group? How many with neither Covid nor the vaccines seek treatment for a new condition?

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When we are talking about the jury of reputable infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists, the jury has already submitted a verdict that, for anybody older than 18, and likely over 16, the benefits outweigh the risks by a large margin.

What jury are YOU talking about?

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Allowing the unvaccinated to “play the Covid lottery” makes sense for consumers/customers, but it doesn’t really make sense for employees. Construction workers aren’t allowed to play the death/brain damage lottery by refusing to wear a hard hat.

We’re still in the middle of a pandemic, and I’m surprised state workplace regulators are allowing unvaccinated workers to go unmasked, at least when sharing indoor air with other employees or with customers. Or maybe some employers are just ignoring the requirement.

Employers may not want to mandate vaccines for a variety of reasons, including labor shortages, but enforcing masking for any employee who cannot or will not show a vaccination card doesn’t seem that burdensome. In fact it just seems like good business sense. A couple of weeks ago a Starbucks near me had to shut down for multiple days because of a Covid outbreak among employees. The spread probably did not happen at the store given that masking was still required, but the point is that Covid cases will cause absenteeism and disrupt business operations and why any employer want to create an environment where spread could occur is really puzzling.

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Just had to Lol. My govt workplace allowed employees to be unmasked throughout the pandemic. Sharing indoor airspace was not a concern. They asked us to wear a mask if we would be <6 feet from someone for over 15 min. But they would not even enforce that.

OTOH I am thankful they secured us the vaccine early on compared to the general public. Only 25% of employees took it at that time however.

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Seems like it refers to this study: https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/asset/A%20Detailed%20Study%20of%20Patients%20with%20Long-Haul%20COVID--An%20Analysis%20of%20Private%20Healthcare%20Claims--A%20FAIR%20Health%20White%20Paper.pdf from https://www.fairhealth.org/ .

Looks like the study was tracking medical insurance claims for those who had a claim of COVID-19. It does not compare to a control group of those who did not have a claim of COVID-19.

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This guy just posted on Facebook from a Maine hospital:

“I am not looking for sympathy by writing this,cause what has happened is my own doing…I was diagnosed with covid pneumonia in both lungs today…As I chose not to get vaccinated…Big mistake!!!..So hug your loved ones tight ,cause life can change in an instant and if you haven’t got vaccinated?.Take it from me get the damn shot…”

He appears to be a strong guy, in his 50s. Photos in earlier posts showed him unmasked in large groups. I guess he was one of those people who thought his immune system was strong enough to resist COVID.
A meme he posted a few months ago:

image
image775×1076 97.3 KB

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I listened to part of this hearing last Friday, and it was very interesting.

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“We’re all seeing the same thing – when someone does get sick and comes to the hospital, they’re much more likely to be young and unvaccinated,” said Dr. Robert Wachter, professor and chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.

Most of the kids we’re seeing in the hospital with COVID or MIS-C had COVID in their household, maybe a parent or a grandparent, and most of those individuals had not been vaccinated,” he said.

Lots of great information on why it’s helpful to be vaccinated

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This thread is worth reading. The Delta variant poses a much more serious threat to the unvaccinated, including younger people.

https://twitter.com/Bob_Wachter/status/1404151502864883713?s=09

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Could someone post a list of vaccines whose adverse effects did not show themselves within the first several months, much less years (“long term”) down the line, particularly after being given to hundreds of millions of people?

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Exactly. To spell it out, there are no such studies. Carry on.

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I JUST found that thread this morning. I’ve been sharing it, too.

And the Delta variant presents differently regarding symptoms.

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That doesn’t disprove anything. It could be there are no such studies because they are cumbersome to carry out for 10 years or longer. Is there a study done to prove no side effect ever shows up if it didn’t show up in the first few months? Covering all drugs? Can you really blame skeptical people given the behavior of drug companies? Do you trust drug companies fully? I don’t. I take it when I need it but I don’t believe for a minute they act more ethically than in self interest. People are too caught up wanting to force vaccines for expediency. We could sympathize what could be reasonable hesitancy.

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