Wow, 1000%. Guilting people or asking them to conform to others choices/fears/risk assessments/group risk and all isn’t the way to go.
Information is. Let’s hope that interest increases as more folks get it. We’re never going to be at/near 100% because the perceived risk is different than say Ebola. Let’s hope that we get close enough to create herd immunity and that stops the virus from spreading so easily.
However, what seems to be underreported is the rate of post-recovery after-effects. There also seem to be few studies on the frequency and severity of after-effects, even though anecdotes are so common that the frequency is probably quite high.
Here is a report on one survey in the Republic of Korea finding a very high rate of after-effects:
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-southkorea-study/nine-in-ten-recovered-covid-19-patients-experience-side-effects-study-idUSKBN26K1GC
Here is an encouraging article in the NY Times newsletter today
The Morning: Excellent vaccine news (nytimes.com)
I hesitate to comment on these types of posts for fear of people criticizing but so far the comments look respectful so here goes…
Am I anti-vax? No. I am and my children are vaccinated against all those other major things. But do I have reservations on this one? YES. Why that is I am not entirely sure, it just doesn’t sit right with me…all of it. The rush to produce and test it (meanwhile we can’t cure cancer or many other illnesses and disease) and the long term effects down the road. Plus the fact that it was created in a time in our country when we are so divided about everything. Truth is I was shocked at how quickly people got it but respect that its their bodies/their choice.
Will I get it? Yes down the road but I won’t be among the first.
This thread is a sigh/rage-inducing bit of evidence of the inordinate amount of damage done to our society by the ongoing debasement of expertise, science, facts, logic, and reason.
I think the vaccine issue is similar to masks: vaccines are to benefit the larger community, not just ourselves. I well remember getting a polio vaccine in the 1950’s. Sometimes agreeing to all those vaccines for my kids was difficult, but most of us just try to do our part despite fears or even skepticism. That said, there are definitely some who are justified in avoiding them due to allergies or other immune problems.
Not really, the diversity of opinion on this is not only held by people on this forum but also by health care professionals. There IS risk for injecting anything directly into your body, and IMO is something each individual needs to assess themselves. Skepticism is a sign of a healthy society. BTW science is not a true/false answer, it involves various shades of grey and theories are constantly evolving as we learn more about a particular subject.
I have been a pharmacist for 31 years. In general I understand reluctance to new medications and often agree. But living in Southern California, Covid is bad. The emergency rooms are full, the ICUs are full, the mortuaries are full. I want to see my parents, my kids, and my grandkids. I don’t want to wear an N95 mask all day at work. I don’t want to get tested weekly. I want to travel, go to concerts, restaurants, nail salons, baby showers, weddings, etc… I want kids to go back to school and I want kids to play sports. To me, the risk of the virus and all of it’s many short and long term effects outweigh the risks of the vaccine, even if we don’t know the full picture.
I don’t really understand vaccine reluctance, but I’m definitely interested in hearing what people have to say about being reluctant. I still haven’t gotten an answer to my earlier question upthread, and I’m not sure why, because I felt it was a legitimate question and not antagonistic at all. I’m genuinely curious to know the answer.
On the other hand, something that gets me more than a little exasperated is the reluctance/refusal to wear masks. It’s a piece of cloth or fiber that you wear on your face! There are no risks of wearing masks. And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that it reduces particulate transmission of all kinds. Gosh, sometimes I think a lot of Americans are just not into personal hygiene, and it’s gross.
From the 12/2020 PubMed paper linked some posts above:
“The estimated age-specific IFR [infection to fatality rate] is very low for children and younger adults (e.g., 0.002% at age 10 and 0.01% at age 25) but increases progressively to 0.4% at age 55, 1.4% at age 65, 4.6% at age 75, and 15% at age 85.”
Everyone has to make her own assessment of risk, but perhaps we can all agree that with numbers like that COVID is nothing like smallpox or even polio.
I know there are various reports of after-effects from survivors (I personally have not seen this in any of the people I know who have recovered, but it’s a small sample size of course). But IFR numbers like that would not convince me to take any precautions at all. Substantially less than 0.01% IFR for all kids in school (up through completion of undergrad degree)? Extremely hard to justify continued school restrictions now that we have had a year of experience with the disease. As the median and average ages of death from COVID are greater than the average life expectancy in the United States, I think the better approach is to shelter the most vulnerable, offer the vaccine and education to all, and get back to normal life.
I deleted my link and directed them to your post! I hope! 
One of the biggest reasons I’ve seen for attaining herd immunity is that it stops new more contagious and possibly lethal variants of Covid. That if we don’t vaccine not only our population here but as importantly the entire world population, the disease will change to become a worse version of itself.
So it may be that right now Covid is recoverable for most of the population but that will not be the case if we don’t vaccinate the world.
I would like to explore my country and the world in the future.
My sample of people I know who have recovered from COVID-19 is that at least two out of seven have significant after-effects. Both are under 50 (one in their 20s). On the other hand, two others among them had probable asymptomatic cases with no apparent after-effects.
Most of the most vulnerable have contact with members of the general population (e.g. grandparents who want to see their grandchildren, nursing home residents who come into contact with the staff). Given the tendency of COVID-19 to be most contagious before symptoms show up (if symptoms show up at all), sheltering the most vulnerable while those whom they are in contact with go about normal life will not be effective at protecting them from exposure to the virus.
This is where we are at right now. Not trusting anyone or anything.
I think that the vaccine has been if the great discoveries of the modern world. But it wasn’t developed overnight. They have been working on this technology for a long time. Coronavirus are not new, this one is but these viruses are not. So finding a vaccine for a very common type of infection does not seem that strange to me.
I know some of my friends are vaccine ‘reluctant’, quietly but when the rest of my group crow about getting the first shot, they are silent. I am inclined to avoid them after I get my second shot and socialize with my vaccinated friends so as to avoid that 5% chance that my vaccine will not provide immunity. I think the chances that a vaccinated person would transmit the virus to another vaccinated person are very, very small. Am I right?
How much the vaccines affect asymptomatic transmission is currently unknown (it was not checked during trials – only symptomatic, severe, and fatal COVID-19 were tracked), but some experts say that they would be surprised if vaccines that have shown the effectiveness they did in trials did not significantly reduce transmission.
The fact that “it is unknown whether the vaccines reduce transmission” frequently gets misinterpreted as “the vaccines do not reduce transmission”.
That sure is the truth, unfortunately.
Can we have a healthy conversation without ad hominems please? It’s fine to disagree without the name-calling. Final warning. Further infractions with result in warnings and thread closure.
My wife is a pediatrics nurse currently working shifts on the COVID floor. She interacts with COVID positive patients every day, but has been reluctant to get the vaccine. Her reasons are:
But last week we convinced her to get the vaccine. In my opinion, the main reason she did it was because we told her it would help us stop worrying about her. Instead of shaming her (which never works) we emphasized how much we care about her health.
I know that people are doing their best to cope with this disease, but I wish we would take shame out of our toolbox. We’re still dealing with HIV stigma and I worry COVID stigma won’t help either.
Really great post and perspective from your family.
Sometimes the best helpers/caregivers are the last to help themselves.
Thank you for also pointing out the shameful stigma we tend to promote.