My H either won’t get it, or is waiting to get it, and has turned down 2 offers to be vaccinated so far (1 thru drs office, 1 thru work). OTOH I am a big believer in the vaccines, and am hugely disappointed that I am not eligible for a shot and am growing concerned that it will be summertime before I’m eligible. So lots of discussions between H & me.
I think my strongest argument to date is that the airlines are going to end up requiring proof of immunization to fly, so he might as well go ahead and get vaccinated now. I really hope the airlines do this, and announce soon that they are going to do this effective October 1 (or some other date when anyone who wants a vaccine will have been offered one). I also hope that the single shot J&J vaccine, which uses more traditional technology will be more palatable to him.
As for H’s reasons why… he doesn’t trust the government, he doesn’t trust how quickly the vaccine was made, and the people he knows who’ve gotten Covid all had mild cases. H has bought into the worst of the messaging that BOTH political parties put out. So he’s bought into, on the one hand that this is being over-hyped, and on the other hand that this vaccine was developed too quickly and testing was rushed and the administration could not be trusted to value people over an economic/political win.
When I point out my relatives who have died from Covid, he thinks they were in ill health and it was just a matter of what illness would have gotten them. Also, his and his family’s world view is that life is meant to be lived, and not spent hiding in fear, and that we will all die of something anyway. So as an example, his 90 year old mom refused to not host Thanksgiving indoors for all the family, and they all thought it was important to go. Each of us thinks the other side is wrong, so we have to work really hard at accepting that the other person has a right to a different opinion. (Wrong though that might be, lol).
Does he have a reason to think the vaccine is harmful? There were a few adverse reactions at the beginning, but those seem to be related to preexisting conditions (asthma, chronic disease) but if he (or anyone) doesn’t have such a condition, the vaccine doesn’t seem to be doing any harm.
I can see a person deciding not to wait hours in line, not to pay a lot for the vaccine, not to search for hours for an appointment, but if it is convenient and free, why not?
My hope is that as the vaccines are rolled out and more and more people receive it without incident it will encourage those more hesitant to take the chance and get vaccinated.
It is a new type of vaccine and if you’re older you know the government‘s record with transparency hasn’t always been the best in connection with medical situations. If you’re young you may not know anyone who had a serious case so it doesn’t seem that necessary. Human psychology is complicated but bullying and guilting people into acquiescing isn’t the best strategy in my opinion. People have different strategies to deal with perceived risk and fear of the unknown. For some the trial samples are enough. For others a few million, and still others tens of millions. Fortunately or not, vaccination is occurring as a rollout not a worldwide simultaneous event.
As of now, there’s not an excess of vaccine available so start with those most interested and move through the population as more becomes available over the course of the next 3-6 months. Production will continue to ramp up but there’s an upper limit.
Also, we are trying to vaccinate the entire eligible population in not only in our country but the world! Let that sink in. It’s never been done. EVER.
Keep educating the public with the facts and keep opinion, hyperbole and guilt to a minimum or not at all.
He is concerned they don’t know the mid or long term side effects. And he wouldn’t put it past the government to fail to disclose some known or suspected short term side effects if its “in the greater good” for everyone to get the vaccine. So throw “some” people under the bus to save others, but he doesn’t want to be in that “some” group. Also just a general concern that the studies weren’t deep enough or too rushed etc so many short term side effects may not have been discovered yet.
Honestly with this attitude we’d have had a smallpox outbreak in this county in the late 1940’s. They knew there was a small risk of encephalitis from the vaccine, but they had to carry on. Waiting in lines for hours in the cold and rain to be vaccinated. Today we’d moan about the long lines and the side effects. How New York City Vaccinated 6 Million People in Less Than a Month - The New York Times
I remember waiting in a line to get the polio vaccine (sugar cube) when I was about 4-5. It is one of my earliest memories because it was exciting to be outside at night in an important place like the town hall.
I respect his views. I was hesitant back in August/September because of how quickly it was made, new technology, etc. But the longer this goes on and the worse it gets, the more I am just DONE with it. And 25 million have already gotten one shot and seem to be doing OK. I realize we don’t know about the long term side effects, but OTOH I just read an article saying how 5% of those who lost taste/smell haven’t gotten it back after 6 months. And we still don’t know how much long term heart/lung damage is out there in mild cases. So to me, the risks of long term damage from covid far exceed those from the vaccine. (I’m probably preaching to the choir.)
But mostly, I am just tired of being anxious and angry all day at work. It’s exhausting. I came in to see 3 people unmasked in the cube across from me chatting it up about their weekend snow detail shifts. My evil death glare broke that one up after awhile. But then another person came in and stood shoulder to shoulder with another for over 15 minutes unmasked. And there were construction workers in our foyer/lobby area all week last week. not once did I see a mask. Nobody wears them and I hate it. I am just done worrying and being angry at the people I used to respect and care about. And I still do, but it’s just hard. I’m tired.
OTOH, H and I sort of sadly chuckle when mil 86 y.o. FIL says he doesn’t want the shot because he’s concerned about long term side effects. He’s been hanging on by a thread for the last several years. What long term is he worried about? But putting myself in his shoes… If you are barely hanging on as it is, why take some new (scary in his mind) drug that might just push you over the edge? I can sympathize with that I suppose. Of course, covid will mostly likely kill him as well. Tough call.
The fact that no one died or was hospitalized as a result of COVID in those cited vaccine results at first glance seems very promising regarding the efficacy of the vaccine in question.
But the disease is not very deadly anyway, and the time period examined in the trials is only 14 days. I haven’t looked into this too much, does anyone have links handy to the control (placebo) groups? With trials only 14 days and the largest in that tweet only 22,000 people, I wouldn’t expect any deaths from COVID anyway in a randomized trial, perhaps not even any hospitalizations.
Looking to learn here, because this disease to my mind is not in the same universe as smallpox or even polio.
Not sure why you think trials are 14 days? Patients in the covid vaccine trials will be followed for at least one year. At this point, some trial participants had the vaccine 8+ months ago.
I will get the vaccine. I know those who say they will not. I am rather nonplussed about their decision. Frankly once I have the had the vaccine whether or not someone else has had it is up to them. I would very much encourage my parents and in laws to get it as they are in the most at risk age group. Once I have gotten it whether my kids get it or not is entirely up to them (my youngest has had her first already as she is doing clinicals as a DPT student). Unlike other diseases there are distinct differences in how people react to the disease and the risk factors seem to be pretty well known. Most of the people I know who have had Covid have had mild cases and have recovered just fine. I know some senior citizens who have had Covid and died or who were very sick and are having a difficult time in their recovery. I am of the opinion that once the vaccine is universally available and those most at risk have been given the option to have the vaccine then it is time to open up the economy, have mask wearing be optional and get our lives back to normal. It won’t eliminate the disease just as vaccines don’t eliminate the flu. But the option will be available for those who want it and for those of us who have had it we will not be at risk.
Oh I hear what you are saying, and I want to agree so much. And that’s the tack I’ve had to take with my H and his family. But here’s where I’m having a hard time: herd immunity and new strains. It’s been discussed ad nauseum that herd immunity is important to protect those that can’t receive a vaccine for health reasons or for whom a vaccine won’t be effective. Sure, that’s a small % of folks, but they still count. And new strains…if we achieved herd immunity, there wouldn’t be new strains. New strains might be harder to vaccinate against and might be deadlier. I think of this like seeing a termite. If you see one, you better get the exterminator out and get them buggers good, rather than trying a home remedy and never quite getting the job done, all the while your house is suffering more damage while you’re piddly dinking around.
For those who are concerned about the side effects of the vaccines, here’re the latest tallies from CDC (as of 1/24; out of nearly 22m shots, including about 4m people who received two doses):
Interestingly, nearly all cases of anaphylaxis are female (68/71). 90% of them had reactions within 30 mins. More than 80% of them had prior history of allergy.
I understand. In my view the goal is to keep the termites out of my house not to eliminate the termites. Along with the roaches they will always be with us. We can do far more for society by living full and vibrant lives than sequestering ourselves and living in fear. Our future doctors, nurses and scientists etc. are currently unable to study together in labs or classes at many of our finest universities. They will be the key to combatting future outbreaks. When there was no solution I was willing to sacrifice freedoms to prevent the spread of Covid. Now that there is a solution it is time to allow people to make the decisions they deem best for them and live again.
I’m so sorry that you are surrounded by fellow workers who aren’t wearing masks. I’d be pretty angry too. I vacillate between feeling like these people aren’t respecting me, and thinking that I shouldn’t take their actions as a reflection on their thoughts (or lack thereof) of me, but instead the fact that they honestly don’t believe that Coronavirus is a risk to others around them. (The fact that I think they are being willfully ignorant is irrelevant, because their actions aren’t about my world view, but instead about their world view). If any of these people ended up infecting you and causing you serious illness or death, I’m sure they’d feel horrible about it. They just don’t see this as being a real risk.
I hope you can bring in a hepa filter and put it by your desk. It would also be good if your building and weather let you keep a window open. And maybe you can have a non-judgemental conversation with these folks (It’s hard!) and let them know that while they believe one set of facts, you believe another, and they are scaring you when they don’t follow the rules and wear masks. And that you don’t want to be scared when you’re at work. The might think you are a wimp and that you’ve bought into this government craziness, but I think by and large most people want to be thought of as a good guy and don’t want people to be scared of them.
I’m anxious to get back to life. Tired in living in a little bubble. I’m healthy and think that I’d have a mild case but I’m not ready to test that theory. My H and my elderly dad both have had their first shots which is great (no symptoms but I hear the possibility is higher with the second dose) I’ll be eligible in a couple months and I can’t wait. I’m the one caring for my dad and I feel much better that he’ll be protected.
Just hearing one case of a long hauler is enough to make you sign up. And the thought of losing smell and taste is not pleasant either.
The vaccines aren’t meant to make you fire-proof but hopefully it will make a case milder and keep you out of the hospital. Good enough reason to get it.
I fully agree with you about the goal being full and vibrant lives. I think if we can achieve herd immunity with a vaccine that will enable more people to lead a full and vibrant life, including the immunocompromised.
@compmom i tried at least 3 times to just publish the table that Anish Jah tweeted out! The second part of his tweet didn’t reference the second article at all. It was truly a mistake!
So I have no idea about the second part. I only wanted to show a simple table about vaccine side effects
I can delete what I linked to if people think it’s too confusing.