I’ve finally found a group I align with! Being pro-education in a low education area, moderate politically, and among the minority from my faith regarding many things, this has been difficult to do.
I don’t care if folks get vaccinated to avoid Covid, enjoy the world without a mask, or get free tickets to a game/win a lottery or whatever. Regardless of the reason, it’s a win for the world, including those who shouldn’t get vaccinated for real medical reasons.
I’m on Team World, not Team Virus.
Both myocarditis and pericarditis tend to hit men after age 20 so past college years (athletes are a different story, as they are with many heart-related issues, and that’s likely due to stresses on the heart over and above most of the same age). For women the age is much older still. These stats are readily available! Both are associated with heart failure, CVD and other heart diseases associated with age. Covid complicates underlying and existing co-morbidities associated with the heart, unfortunately.
I know no one that died or was hospitalized. I am lucky I guess. I know very few people that even had it. Two young nieces, like a cold; middle aged neighbor, like a flu; two older coworkers, like a cold; and a middle aged friend, like the flu. I know four people who were hospitalized after being vaccinated. Not one doctor admitted this was due to the vaccine; they and I are not so sure. I think there are doctors who are seeing vaccine-related side effects (one doctor noted this in a NY Times article a few weeks back), but may be scared to say anything. With the current political climate, it could be career suicide to discuss anything that doesn’t align with the majority. I just want all the information, the good and the bad, so I can make an informed choice.
Same!
So - this is just speculation, but I’m skeptical that anyone is scared to report. More likely they just don’t connect it or the patient didn’t know to report via VAERS. Not sure of everyone’s medical sophistication but my dad always told me that what doctors say and what patients hear can be very different things (I noticed this well when we have extended family being treated for cancer . . .). “We don’t know” really tends to mean that of the set of things they know about - it wasn’t one of those things that contributed to the hospitalization. That doesn’t mean it’s not the vaccine (though it doesn’t mean it is). The relationship should be explored and, really, I’d think that the CDC would actually want this information! That’s why they’ve set up the reporting mechanisms to begin with.
Just because I like anecdotes…
I personally know about two dozen people who had COVID. Two were hospitalized. None died.
(One of the affected families is anti-vaccine in general and none of them will be receiving the vaccine - sadly, even though the high school aged daughters have asked if they could have it. The others all got vaccinated as soon as they were able to.)
I know probably hundreds of people who have been vaccinated. Of those, one had serious side effects leading to hospitalization. Everyone agrees it was vaccine caused. He is in his early forties and obviously will not be receiving his second dose. He still thinks others should be vaccinated - especially as that protection will be denied to him. My family were all vaccinated as soon as we were eligible.
I know probably a hundred people who do not plan to be vaccinated. Among them are some of my siblings. They want to wait and see.
These people live in red states and blue states and run the spectrum of political ideologies. One thing I wish is that people would stop assuming it’s a political choice. From what I can tell, it’s really not. It’s got a lot more to do with trust in the medical and pharmaceutical industries. Those industries do not always act in trustworthy fashion. No offense to anyone in the industries.
The “Covid hitting too close to home” thread that I started a year or so ago when my DH’s cousin died of Covid has over 1200 posts. So obviously yes, many of us have been personally touched by Covid.
If this is a competition, covid “wins” every time.
Covid
-Mother in law died of multiple organ failure due to Covid.
-Friend’s husband recently had liver transplant due to covid. He’s in his mid 50’s.
-Step mom’s vision permanently destroyed due to covid.
-My father died of a normally slow-growing cancer, which was kicked into high gear due to covid, according to his oncologist.
-My son’s girlfriend’s 19 year old sister still can’t smell properly after covid last October.
-A very close friend has no sense of taste or smell since getting covid at the beginning of March. Those were her ONLY two symptoms. She got tested for covid after hearing her smoke detector go off. She had burned dinner and realized she couldn’t smell it.
-I know others who got covid, most of whom were pretty sick for 2-3 weeks. My son got covid mildly with no ill effects, fingers crossed.
Vaccine (all, including Astra Zeneca because we have European relatives)
-several people who were pretty sick for a day or two after one or both jabs.
-Um…Nothing else.
These anecdotes prove…nothing. However, they certainly seem to support all the science, which is that you are more likely to suffer lasting side effects/serious consequences if you get covid, rather than if you get vaccinated.
Coivd attacks every organ in the body. Here is a concise article which explains how your organs are affected. Coronavirus: What Happens To People's Body If They Get Infected
Vaccines do not attack your organs. If someone reading this is vaccine reluctant, ask yourself if you want to take the risk. If you have any weaknesses in yourself, it is far safer to get vaccinated than it is to get covid.
In our state, as I posted earlier, pretty much all deaths and hospitalizations from Covid are among the unvaccinated. From the Forbes and these linked below, it appears that all of the impacted IT staffers might have been unvaccinated. https://www.bradenton.com/news/coronavirus/article252212853.html
Two Manatee County IT department employees die from COVID-19 | Your Observer
The two IT staffers who died were were also in their 50’s. As we all know, the risk of dying from Covid increases significantly in that age bracket. Whether that’s primarily due to increased incidence of co-morbidities or something else isn’t yet clear (to me at least). At least one of the hospitalized was in their late 30’s. They are thinking it might be a new highly contagious variant based on how quickly it spread through the department.
The issue with the vaccine reluctant African-American family members that I have talked to is all about a distrust in the medical apparatus that has persisted within my family for generations. Most of those family members are at risk for complications to themselves and understand that their is some risk so they rarely go out and always socially distance and mask up when they do. What you have portrayed as selfish, I see as a distrust in a lot of systems that have betrayed their trust or that of loved ones. Aggressive tactics and harsh words like yours will not convince them, but having a full FDA approval would surely help.
Here is one older family member’s quote. “I will never be a guinea pig for a medication or vaccine that is not fully approved”. There have been some shocking stories passed on of real medical malfeasance in own my lifetime and that is hard to overcome for the vaccine reluctant that I know and it affects some of the younger members of my family too. I personally see a selfishness in those who verbally insult those who have yet to take the vaccine, because I believe they do so because they truly want to protect their own families more than they care about the health of the unvaccinated. I get it, because I want to protect my household too, but lumping every unvaccinated person who does not have a medical reason as selfish is one reason why we will continue to stay divided.
I apologize if I offended you or others. You made a similar point upthread and what you say makes sense.
You make a great point and I agree 100%. People have various reasons for being reluctant and many of those reasons should absolutely be respected not criticized.
The info is completely valid, and the person I’m referencing has seen many Covid patients in the course of their job - a sizable number of whom are Latino/Latina, a population that has been particularly hard-hit with Covid. They have also seen adverse reactions to the vaccine, including heart inflammation among young people weeks prior to most of us reading about it in the news (I had already been informed about it but was a tad skeptical, frankly, until CDC started commenting on it). It is my understanding that the cases reported are by no means exhaustive, that this issue is under-reported. There are apparently other un-reported (or under-reported) incidents as well but I’m going to remain skeptical on those unless/until the CDC comes out with information. Keep in mind that the purpose of my posts are to provide context for why people might be vaccine reluctant. They aren’t to prove or disprove the safety of the vaccine or some conspiracy theory or other. It is clear to me that some healthcare providers are seeing a discrepancy between incidents and the reporting - they are shocked at the departure from protocol. That isn’t even a contradiction of the many physicians who are supportive of the vaccine for themselves and their families. The two groups are seeing different things, clearly, but that probably has more to do with their specific clinical experience than anything else.
I’d never pick the option that forces someone to do something solely to benefit another. If it’s legit to compel Person A to undergo a medical procedure to benefit Person B, then what’s to stop a mandated blood drive or small tissue donation?
If one person’s quality of life is improved by making another “do something” that’s actually called forced labor. In this country, when we want someone to do something for us, we tend to hire them and pay them for the service. Perhaps that’s another way to think about it, UCB.
Hey @Lindagaf, I am definitely not offended. I just hope that all posters try to understand the other side on this issue although it is very hard to do. I have been able to convince some to get vaccinated with patience and understanding, some are going to wait for FDA approval and some will probably never get vaccinated. I believe that if we communicate more effectively, more of the hesitant will get vaccinated such as pointing out the large drop in Covid cases and deaths from January highs, more than getting upset with one another. I also welcome vigorous scientific scrutiny on the vaccines. It is one of the best ways to convince some of the hesitant that everything is being done to verify the safety of the vaccines.
Agree with this 100%. Thank you for providing a very needed context in this discussion.
Worried about the same.
In that case, are you opposed to rules that require people to clean up after their dogs in public places, take used automotive fluids from car maintenance to proper disposal sites, etc.?
Heh, you beat me to it.
I can think of lots of examples where people are forced to do something to improve the quality of the lives of others or the community in general: can your trash, buy a muffler, move your car to the opposite side of the street, etc. Should I expect to be paid to pick up after my dog?
Larger surveys indicate that, out of various demographics including age, race/ethnicity, and urban/suburban/rural, political party is the strongest indicator of vaccine intention, although even the least enthusiastic demographic (Republicans) still has 50% who have either already gotten vaccinated or will get it as soon as possible: KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard | KFF