<p>My daughter was in the situation beginning her senior year, where she was #1 but #2 was close at her heels. Scheduling classes had to include all honors or AP's so her weighted, cumulative GPA stayed higher. As far as college applications, admissions, scholarships, etc....her counselor said she could list #1.....that by the time it MIGHT change, would be pass the deadlines any way. Her school waits until April to officially announce Val and Sal. By then, the third grading period is complete.</p>
<p>In my opinion, no one deserves or is entitled or work to expect these titles.</p>
<p>Contrary to the above post</p>
<p>
[quote]
-I have read more than one college advice book written by former adcoms that stated their support for weighted, exact class rank for most HS's
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</p>
<p>kids from our school are routinely admitted to every good school in the country, without any class rank or Val/Sal. Reading this thread makes me delighted that we don't have to deal with all that stress (and my kids weren't in boarding school like MOWC's!).</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have read more than one college advice book written by former adcoms that stated their support for weighted, exact class rank for most HS's
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is true, I think, but one must realize that, according to which year's NACAC figures you take, only 10% to 20% of non-parochial private schools report class rank. In addition, public schools with student demographics at or near those of private schools are increasingly doing away with class rank reporting. There's a reason for that. Too many highly selective colleges were using class rank to reject talented and hard-working kids from high-performing schools in favor of less talented and hard-working kids from low-performing schools.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of recognizing that some kid from an impoverished, rural school district is doing the best with the tools at hand and deserves that thick envelope from Princeton. What I object to, though, is when the local physician's kid in Singletree, Kansas coasts through a undemanding curriculum to val against tepid competition and gets into Princeton when another kid kills himself to make the 91st percentile when 10% of his class are NMSFs and doesn't get in.</p>
<p>tarhunt: would your district make results of that study available? All the reasons you cited are very valid.</p>
<p>^^Just stating what I've read, Allmusic. That was their personal preference. </p>
<p>I've stated my reasons why I support class rank--I just think that for a kid like me, who goes to a public school that doesn't send a lot of kids to the top colleges and isn't particularly well-known, weighted exact class rank (the only kind I support) is an easy and helpful way to figure where a kid stands in their class. Otherwise, I'm fighting against a sea of 4.0's from other schools that may or may not actually be better than my 3.82--it's not going to be as obvious to an adcom that I really have done pretty well compared to my classmates. Not saying that they won't figure it out, but it's easier when the rank is right there to see. </p>
<p>Again, I don't find it stressful at all, and none of my classmates seem to find it stressful, either. Personally, I think that the whole "no class rank" thing is often kind of a cop-out. My parent's public school had no class rank--yet they had a Val, Sal, and multiple level's of Dean's/Principal's/Whatever's List. So it's not like they weren't ranking kids, or kids didn't know where they stood--so why pretend like that's the case? Unless the school is very competitive (prep/magnet/elite public), I don't see rank as harmful.</p>
<p>simba:</p>
<p>If you want to give me an e-mail (send me a message if you like), I'll send you a summary PowerPoint presentation citing a number of sources.</p>
<p>Tarhunt: just sent a pm.</p>
<p>advantagious:</p>
<p>First off, class rank reporting is very valuable for schools that have average to below-average competition for class rank. For instance, if your school's median SAT score is around 1000, I would strongly urge you to keep class rank reporting. It will help your very top students to get into their colleges of first choice and to obtain good merit scholarships, in some cases. Where class rank reporting doesn't make sense is for high schools where the average SAT score is, say, 1200. In those schools, hard-working, talented kids can be forced down the class rank ladder simply because they are up against very talented competition.</p>
<p>As for the stress, one wouldn't expect it to produce the sort of gaming one finds in schools where a large number of kids aspires to highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>So, I would not recommend dropping class rank in high schools with average or below-average competition.</p>
<p>Tarhunt: That is also very interesting observation.</p>
<p>Reading today's NYT about what a five-foot tall 18-year-old graduate of the class of 2006 is doing to get college money puts a lot of things in perspective:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Behind her, a living room decorated with family portraits and a large mock check from her current employer.</p>
<p>“Reserved in the name of Resha Kane,” the check reads, $37,200 from the Army College Fund and the Montgomery G.I. Bill. It represents her partial compensation for enlisting for three years and 22 weeks. She plans to study biochemistry someday.</p>
<p>....</p>
<p>[In high school] She took care of her siblings while her parents worked, and learned to make a mean baked chicken. She graduated in the upper ranks in a class of about 60. She was honored for her grades and for her abstract artwork of flowers and butterflies. She has yet to learn to drive.</p>
<p>She enlisted in April, the same month as her prom, because she saw the military as a way to further her education. Right after graduation she went through boot camp and some extra training. ...
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</p>
<p>The article goes on to describe her deployment to Iraq. At an age where most parents on this site are concerned with their children's cell phone plans and extra long bedsheets and other such mundane considerations, her father's parting concern is whether she knows how to clean her weapon.</p>
<p>Tarhunt, that describes my school fairly well--average ACT is 22.someting. (Our average SAT is 1200, but it is a very self-selected group--not at all representative). This is the type of school that I am advocating rank for, as well--this is the most common type of school, I would imagine! Most kids DON'T go to HS's where the average SAT is 1200, last time I checked. I have made this same argument in many topics (SAT/ACT's, AP's, and so on). I think that kids from HS's like mine need every opportunity to prove that they are at least as capable as kids from well-known feeder-type schools, since I can't point to a long line of capable graduates who have attended X Top University and succeded.</p>
<p>Emeraldkitty makes a good point in post 79. So much of class ranking whether it's for val, sal, whatever, seems to be splitting hairs. In her story, there were 44 vals in a class of 406. What if the school found a way to separate them into 1-44. #44 wouldn't even be in the top 10%. People on CC would probably be saying to him/her- "your class rank is awful, forget about HYPS." The difference between 1 and whatever can be miniscule, but can work against many students. In our area, students play all kinds of games for high rankings. At our school band, choir, PE, etc are not counted in GPA or class rank.</p>
<p>advantagious:</p>
<p>No question in my mind that you're right. Good for you for noting that the group with 1200 is a small sampling of talented students. I should have made it clear in my post that I meant 1200 for a school where most kids take the SAT. I also simplified in other ways. For instance, a given school may have 60% of kids who average 1200 on the SAT, and another 20% who average 850. The overall average may not be 1200, but it's still a school that should probably not provide class rank to colleges. And 1200 isn't some sort of definite cutoff point, either.</p>
<p>Our school is in the category for which Tarhunt recommends class rank. A very large public school, about 50% go to four year college, 25% to community college, average SAT (most students take) around 1000. The competition and gaming for the top ranks are not anything like what is described for some of the other schools here. There is a group at the top of the class which aims for highly selective colleges, and their class rank (out of around 800 total) probably helps them to get admitted to these. I agree that if the entire class, or a very large percentage of the class, is made up of high achievers, ranking would be counter-productive and harmful to the atmosphere of the school.</p>
<p>wisteria- thank you for putting things in perspective</p>
<p>after reading this, I'm glad my d's school does not rank</p>
<p>I remember feeling just like the OP when val/sal were determined at her high school last year. They took the top 3 kids via the highest GPA's; however, I was upset because my D was #4. The reason I was upset was because #3 was no more sal than the man on the moon. His gpa was not tied with the #2ranked person so why did he get to give a speech and not my D? Also, the prior year, they took the top 5 gpa's and called them all vals. I know that's kinda weird but every high school does things differently. In the long run I know it doesn't matter, but I understand COMPLETELY how you feel. To make matters worse, the reason she wasn't the val was because she took AP spanish and the others did not because it is very very difficult to get an A in that class. D wound up with a B in AP spanish so that set her gpa/ranking back a bit, but neither of the other 3 students had more AP's than her. In fact, she had the most. So, in my mind she was that val and that's all that matters to me. And the fact she knows how proud I am of her. :)</p>
<p>Wiseria, thanks for posting that. </p>
<p>My daughter was 13th out of a few hundred...to this day we don't remember who was val or sal, but, D remembers awesome teachers and coaches, wonderful friends, outstanding opportunities, cool dates and parties, etc.</p>
<p>Abasket, I really don't see how your D is being cheated if the rules state that number of honors classes will be part of the Val/Sal calculation. You seem to be poo-poohing honors band, yet most honors designations are awarded for a reason. Time for performances, extra rehersals, etc. might be part of the rationale. The fact that D takes music outside the school setting is irrelevant. </p>
<p>If your school weights GPA, and it sounds as if that is the case, it's not as if kids who took basketweaving are being given the top spot. That happens in many schools, and that's where I see unfair situations.</p>
<p>The system is not fair at any school. I have the opposite situation, we do not have honors music at my school although we have been named a grammy school the last two years. I decided to continue in Choir and it hurt my class rank. I would be either #1 or #2 without music classes calculated into my grade point. Kids who do not participate in music can take another honors or AP course which ups the GPA. Maybe the answer is to not count music classes into the GPA. I am okay with it, I cannot imagine my life without music.</p>