<p>At your kids' schools, when are the class val(s) and sal(s) determined? At D's school, the final determination is made the day of graduation, based on final senior year grades. The top 5 kids of the class are all asked to write a graduation speech. I guess this is probably good, to make sure that the top kids don't just give up during the last semester or last quarter. The class rank is based on a weighted GPA (with 6 for AP classes, and 5 for honors level). </p>
<p>As a mom, though, I wish that the added stress wasn't there for D...she's been #1 since ranks were first announced, middle of jr. year. She's got nearly 100% averages in her science and math classes, but is still holding her breath on pulling out the 93% needed to get an A in AP English lit (she's up to a 91% now). I've told her many times that all her other accomplishments and scholarships she's won, etc. are what is important. She's really hard on herself, and can't imagine having worked so hard and to maybe lose it here at the very end. </p>
<p>Arg. I'll really be glad when hs is done for this one!</p>
<p>No val or sal at D's school. No ranking. But one senior is voted on by the graduates to deliver the graduation speech. It's a great honor, and my soph d is in a Latin class with this year's speaker. D says she's both a genius & an all-around great person.</p>
<p>D was in the same spot last year. Had led all through highschool but #2 was closing fast. :eek: Thank goodness grades through the 5th six weeks are all that count. It was big news all over school with teachers literally saying "It all comes down to AP Bio. If he gets you by more than one point, he'll win." Oh, that helped relieve the pressure. LOL. They had everything but cheerleaders. She got him by .007. Both made 99's. It was good clean competition and they were cooperative and never antagonistic to each other, but both were kickin' at the gun lap. Rumor has it that they had the highest two averages in school history and that the young man in 3rd would have been val in several prior years, including his brother's. All 3 were considered exceptionally gifted kids, and I agree.</p>
<p>We always told her that val was one of those things to strive for but that the end result might not be in her hands if their schedules didn't match up, had different teachers, took courses in different years. But she still wanted it. ;)</p>
<p>Curm.....yes, the separation b/w D and #2 is also thousanths of a % away. It's not an antagonist relationship at all; I just wish she didn't feel like this was such a huge thing. She told me that it doesn't matter; knowing her personality, I questioned her and she caved and admitted that it really is weighing heavily on her. Sheesh---at a time when it really is supposed to be a fun time, here at the end of hs. </p>
<p>D and her bf are both taking AP Econ with the same teacher (but at diff times). They are both close to the teacher, having had him for other classes before. They are both a couple of % away from having A's--although D is very confident that she's Ok in there (it's just the English teacher from H*** that has her worried). Anyway, they were both talking to the Econ teacher the other day---he posed the question to bf whether, theoretically, if only one of them could get an A, who should get it....D or her bf. Of course, bf said the right thing, and said D should get it, because he wouldn't want to have to deal with her crying if she didn't get to be Val. :) D said bf ducked back into the teacher's room when they left, so she was sure he changed his answer! They were very close friends from soph - beginning of this year, and always had a very healthy competitive friendship. Once they started dating in the fall, I was relieved, because I knew that they both pushed each other to do better (who could get the higher scores on Physics, Calc III, and Econ tests). And (most of the time) when they get together to study, I believe they really are!</p>
<p>
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Anyway, they were both talking to the Econ teacher the other day---he posed the question to bf whether, theoretically, if only one of them could get an A, who should get it....D or her bf.
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This just strikes me as highly inappropriate. Why would a teacher ask this? Why would he even imply, even as a joke, that a grade would be based on anything else but the work performed? It's stuff like this that makes me hate the whole val idea. Teachers, no matter how well intentioned, are always going to impact the grades & the val race with subjective judgments. If he likes your d, he'll likely be a tad more generous with his grade to boost her chances in the val race. If not, he has the power to take the val title away. And really, what the heck is the difference between the top few students anyway?</p>
<p>No, this particular teacher regularly says highly inappropriate things, but he gets away with it, because he really is a good teacher, and just like we find in "real life" people , his caustic sense of humor is just part of his personality. He's been one of d's favorite teachers, he's made her work her butt off. (In the end, both will get A's...This teacher doesn't sell grades, and is known as a very tough grader). But, back to the issue at hand---yes, the difference between the top few students at D's high school comes down to who took more honors classes and AP courses. But, it is what it is and class rank happens to be a really big deal at D's hs. Should it be? No. Is it? Yes.</p>
<p>Kid with highest GPA at the end of the FIRST semester senior year is Val, kid with second highst GPA is sal. Needless to say, second semester Sr. year has been quite stress-free, except for AP exams (done today!) and a 12-15 page research paper (due Monday...she's nearly done, but has a 4 day weekend coming up to work on it).</p>
<p>Senior year final exams are a joke, we've yeard.</p>
<p>Son was val last year, GPA for val status determined from the last quarter grades right before graduation. But the difference between 1 and 2 was more than .5, closer to 1 full grade point due to his transfering from a larger high school with many more APs. Added college classes and it was a different ballgame.</p>
<p>The closeness between 2-8 was thousandths ( a word?) of a point. He knew however from very frank conversions with #2 and #3 that they had been ranked that way for YEARS. So his arrival upset the apple cart. The system was the way it was.</p>
<p>However, there is a prestigious scholarship awarded every year for over $32K to the most outstanding student of this particular high school. Most years, I think every year for the past 30, it goes to the val. The one catch was it must be applied for, an application must be submitted. The application process is late in the year, after late April, early May and decisions are made quickly. Big banquet is hosted.</p>
<p>Son already had his college decision made and had already been awarded other scholarships. He did not apply for the scholarship. The head of the scholarship committee called him at home and asked if he had "misplaced" it. He said no, he did not apply and felt those that did were all extremely deserving. Sal was awarded the scholarship and all the finalists were invited to the formal banquet including son! They all mentioned him in their speeches, (finalists also were awarded smaller amounts) and they all had a great time.</p>
<p>Yes val selection can be a trying time, and in this case many $$$$ were attached. But I was proud of the decision he made and I <em>know</em> the sal (scholie recipient) was very happy. He made some wonderful friends while in high school!!</p>
<p>They both, val and sal, made speeches at graduation.</p>
<p>Ours were announced at Academic Awards night last night, so they probably take grades through third quarter into account. Val was no surprise, Sal was...</p>
I do agree but in life there are so many things that are on the surface 100% objective that are in fact decided on subjective factors. Prizes for outstanding student in a given discipline? D had the highest GPA, sometimes over a 100% and lost out to Science Fair winners (not a class requirement or entered through the school). It even happened this year in college.(Her professor told her.) With good reason? Maybe. The kids receiving that particular award deserved recognition for their non-class related outstanding research. But you should really set out the parameters for the awards if you are judging something other than classroom performance. But D did win the prize in another science discipline where SHE had done the research so she shouldn't be that ticked. ;)</p>
<p>Just like in sports , one second, one tick of the clock is the difference between a scholarship or not.</p>
<p>Our principal was at the PTA meeting last night and he said there will be 28 or 22 ( one or the other I can't remember which) Vals this year
They do not weight grades & it is cumulative from fall sem of 9th grade.
They just reached the halfway from second semester- so it is from those grades.</p>
<p>When my oldest was a senior, and she was val, it was decided after first semester of senior year, I believe. But this was not a topic of discussion, no competition or race, type of thing. I recently saw the parent of a current senior whom I know who is going to my D's college next year and I asked her who this year's val is and she said this time they have not yet decided but it is between her D and another boy. So, I guess now they have put it off longer than when it was my D's year. The val and sal give speeches.</p>
<p>When my kids went to the school, we only had UNweighted GPA. My older D wrote a policy to adopt weighted GPAs and with regard to rank, which the school board adopted, after a long process she initiated. So, now the val will be calculated using a weighted GPA. In her year, she was val, and had taken the hardest courseload possible and then some, but conceivably, and it has happened (including those ranked second, third, etc.) those who have taken a much easier course load could be vals and sals.</p>
<p>This year the val at my son's school has taken a really lame course load. Next year, the school is switching to a cum laude system, probably in response. Unless there is a special scholarship attached, isn't the title less important when it's decided too late to affect college admissions? My son was never going to make it--he got 2 B+s freshman year because he skipped a year of French and took a harder math course. Probably took some pressure off.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, just last night the parent athletic committee at d's h.s. was meeting & the annual Athlete of the Year scholarship was discussed. The criteria includes a few areas devoted to character & leadership & Catholic values, 4 or more varsity letters, and a B or better average. The nun who chairs the selection committee also admitted that as need was not part of the criteria, in the past she would take it upon herself to give the neediest a tip if there were two very close candidates. As it turns out, very few girls applied. Why? In this very wealthy school population, it's kind of understood that the wealthy kids don't put in for the scholarships. Noblesse oblige, I guess. And I think that's a good thing. But as it stands, girls who have won Div 1 athletic scholarships & All-state honors, and are clearly more worthy of the title, if not the cash, are being overlooked for the title. And everyone knows that the award isn't really "Athlete of the Year," but would be more aptly named "Good Athlete with O.K. Grades Who Is a Member of the Middle or Working Class & Is Well Liked by Her Teachers." This is just one example of subjective factors determining the winner. In fact, it's really built into the criteria. </p>
<p>With val, there are so many subjective factors in play, that often the results are meaningless or comical. Even for close, close GPA's, the title could be named "Fortunate top student who took Mr. Smith's AP English course instead of Mrs. Brown's AP Statistics course." Add in gaming the system and it can become downright nasty. There is usually no discernable #1 that you could objectively name from the group clustered at the top of the rankings. In sports, that tenth of a second advantage is clear to all who view the competition. Not so with academic contests.</p>
<p>Unless there is a special scholarship attached, isn't the title less important when it's decided too late to affect college admissions? </p>
<p>I asked D this very Q when we realized that all the decisions would be in before the coronation. Would you prefer to be #1 at acceptance time or at the end? Her answer- both but she admitted that at acceptance time was more important.</p>
<p>My D and her friends all insist that the Val is chosen at the end of the Junior year, although I find that a little hard to believe. The prohibitive favorite to be named Val is a very bright young woman who is very capable of doing well with a challenging curriculum, yet who has intentionally avoided taking honors or AP classes to avoid the possibility of 95 ruining her GPA. However, in the grand scheme of things -- scholarships aside as per bethievt -- who is val and who is sal and who is #4 isn't worth getting aggravated about.</p>
<p>Good point: Figure skating is more like the val race. All the skaters are fantastic, but sometimes the judges give a tip to their own favorites. And all the skaters have different levels of difficulty built into their routines, much like students and their courseloads/choice of teacher.</p>