<p>Oh, I agree that it’s the institution’s right to decide who they admit. However, the criteria they use cannot be arbitrary… or at least it seems so to me.</p>
<p>I don’t know whether or not this applies to colleges, though, since it’s not the same as being employed. Then again, it’s enough like it to make me wonder. I would say that in many ways, discrimination at Harvard is just as bad as discrimination in the workplace. It’s a fine line Harvard walks when they give preference to certain groups of people. Unless they play their cards right, it’s certainly wrong, and possibly illegal.</p>
<p>How do you figure Harvard is committing a crime when they decide to let in the cellist over the violinist because they have more violinists than they want? Or the kid from Montana over the kid from New Jersey, because they’d like some geographic diversity? Or the kid who throws a ball really well, and may not be a genius but is likely competent enough to navigate the Harvard classroom? Or the kid whose family is likely to donate the next dorm? I’m not sure that those are crimes or that they are sue-worthy.</p>
<p>It’s like how soon we all forget that Harvard and its peers only admitted women relatively recently (in the scheme of things), and that Jews and other groups were explicitly turned away.</p>
<p>Hey hawkette or someone else who likes to compile lists … is there a list showing the top 50 universities by date-went-coed?</p>
<p>Well, even if this student does get in to Harvard based on his Native American blood, he’ll have to live the rest of his life knowing that it wasn’t his own accomplishments that got him in.</p>
<p>That stinks. Who wants to live their entire life thinking that their parents bought them their acceptance letter? For me, getting in to a school will completely validate all the hard work I’ve done over the past 4 years. For him, it means his parents had enough money to hire a geneologist. (That is, of course, if his stats weren’t otherwise up to par- which it kind of seems like they are.)</p>
<p>In this " culture" ( and others) there are so many negative stereotypes associated with the indigenous peoples that to claim tribal afflilation under false pretenses seems unlikely.</p>
<p>About as rational as saying that people choose to be homosexual. ( although sexuality is a spectrum- just like we are a mish mash of our ancestors DNA )</p>
<p>What you (AuburnMathTutor, #61-62) are forgetting is that the Harvard admissions affirmative action policy was more or less specifically blessed by the Supreme Court in the Bakke opinion in 1978, which was then reaffirmed a few years ago in Grutter. For over 30 years, the Harvard policy has essentially defined what was legal.</p>
<p>Now, the key Justices behind those two opinions, Powell and O’Connor, are no longer on the Court, and their replacement by Justices Thomas and Alito certainly raises the possibility that the Court could revisit that idea in the future and reach a different conclusion, especially since Justice Kennedy – who now holds Justice Powell’s former position as The Only Justice Whose Vote Matters – was in dissent in Grutter. But that hasn’t happened yet, and may not happen at all, and certainly wouldn’t be applied retroactively if it happened.</p>
<p>The conclusion that I meant to jump to is that Whiteagle probably doesn’t have all the facts at hand; moreover, with only what he/she has shared here on this forum, his/her complaints don’t appear to be able to stand up to scrutiny. And as another poster said, if the fellow in question was at the head of his class, and thus ahead of Whiteagle, he likely had credentials that earned him the spot over Whiteagle, whatever Whiteagle’s other merits.</p>
<p>This kid is also the valedictorian, and is supposedly a “genius.” This does not appear to be a case of an otherwise unqualified kid being vaulted into Harvard-land by a false or tenuous NA claim. Of course, the kid hasn’t even been admitted yet anyway!</p>
<p>I’d feel like there was more cause for whining if the kid was stupid, not intellectually Harvard material, but was “buying his way in” through parental contributions or through a tenuous NA claim. If he is otherwise reasonably qualified, then I can’t blame him for taking advantage of any loophole and it sounds like sour grapes, or more accurately anticipated sour grapes.</p>
<p>Huh? I can’t count the number of white people I know who claim to have a “Cherokee princess” (or similar N.A. ancestor) for a great grandmother. And an annoying number of these suddenly “discover” their long forgotten heritage right around the time they apply to college or as soon as there are Indian casino profits to share.</p>
<p>Claiming to be an American Indian under false pretenses is downright common.</p>
<p>We had this issue with my kids. For any question pertaining to ethnicity we always checked “other” and aid see attached. We would then include a breakdown of their ethnicity by percentage. The school can then figure out whether my kids qualify for any programs etc. Full disclosure.</p>
<p>I agree with many of the comments here, except Mini. Mini, I have no interest in applying to Harvard, and so no sour grapes on my part. (Although I have friends who are down the line, have less money than Valedictorian, and are genuine minorities.)</p>
<p>It is interesting to me that the AA suporters (and I am one) reflexively defended (sometimes strongly criticizing my complaint about abuse of process) the playing out of AA policies even when they are being mis-used.</p>
<p>This is basically a white kid who has been boasting that he’s gotten an advantage by taking advantage of the system. If I have sour grapes, it’s because I believe in the system and don’t like it to be abused. That’s all.</p>
<p>I am not bitter or a whiner; and really my comments were directed more to the abuse of the process rather than any complaint about AA. Yes, I agree that Harvard gets to admit anyone Harvard wants. I further agree that there are many other schools other than Harvard. Finally, I think diversity is great and totally support a college having a population of consisting of various groups, including ethnic groups. </p>
<p>I probably won’t post on anything remotely touching AA again; I see it touches nerves.</p>
<p>Mini, your posts surprise me, given your AA support. It surprises me that you defend this guy (24/25 white) who basically woke up and discovered his American Indian heritage the day his rich parents handed him his geneological report. Why would Harvard, or you, want this example of diversity? And yes, I understand, and even stated, he would/will probably get into Harvard without regard to this 1/25 ethnic status.</p>
I agree and wonder how other students could know whether the individual actually checked some box indicating “1/25” NA on the app for the program to MIT (which another poster showed doesn’t require minority status) or to any app to Harvard. I’m guessing these are just a lot of assumptions being made. Again, rather than wallow in bitterness for the other individual’s accomplisments, good fortune, or even ‘falsely gaming the systems’, it’s best to put those thoughts out of one’s head and focus on what they themselves have control over. I suppose this is easier said than done though. </p>
<p>It makes you wonder what other students might have been assuming/saying about some of our own high-achieving kids.</p>
<p>Yes. Dangle a four-year private education, or anything else worth $200,000, in front of any white person and tell them, “I’ll give you this if you’re a minority. Are you a minority?” What do you expect them to say?</p>
<p>People who game the system in this way are both morally dubious and completely human.</p>
If you want to see nerves touched go post something in the political forum!</p>
<p>I see your perspective whiteagle. While I’m not a race based AA supporter at all (because it’s racial discrimination by definition) I understand your point that this individual appears to be trying to game the system. However, even if he’s really doing that (and his boasting so doesn’t make it true - he could be playing all of you), he’s not the first and I’m sure the most selective universities have plenty of experience with this and hopefully can discount those who are abusing the system in this area.</p>
<p>Note - You can find many long threads on CC on the subject of AA if you’re interested in people’s opinions - just use the search feature.</p>
<p>“Mini, your posts surprise me, given your AA support. It surprises me that you defend this guy (24/25 white) who basically woke up and discovered his American Indian heritage the day his rich parents handed him his geneological report. Why would Harvard, or you, want this example of diversity? And yes, I understand, and even stated, he would/will probably get into Harvard without regard to this 1/25 ethnic status.”</p>
<p>Because he is entitled to it. Because for centuries in this country, someone who had even one drop of African-American blood in them was considered to be Black, and treated accordingly. Same for American Indians. Nevermind that they were enslaved, indentured, covered with smallpox blankets (the guy who invented that idea has a prestige college named after him), whipped, gathered onto desert reservations, had their children ripped from their families and sent to boarding schools, had their traditional diets destroyed. Never mind that they were assaulted and murdered, often in the name of the state. Their mothers and grandmothers and great grandmothers and great great grandmothers were raped, and bore the children of white rapists.</p>
<p>“This kid is also the valedictorian, and is supposedly a “genius.” This does not appear to be a case of an otherwise unqualified kid being vaulted into Harvard-land by a false or tenuous NA claim. Of course, the kid hasn’t even been admitted yet anyway!”</p>
<p>To PizzaGirl, you’re right. I completely agree with you, (as I wrote in my post that his stats seem up to par American Indian or not). However, whether he gets in based on his own talent or not, there will always be the nagging thought in the back of his mind that he had to resort to a genealogical report to get him in. That’s what stinks.</p>
<p>I think a very useful construct is to let other people’s tactless or thoughtless comments just fall to the floor and lie there. If this kid brags, and you don’t react, then it’s like the proverbial tree falling in the forest. Say “uh-huh,” “that’s nice,” and change the subject. </p>
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<p>You don’t know that. Maybe the nagging thought will be because he was a double legacy. Or maybe he won’t have any nagging thoughts at all. Are you sure you’re concerned about the nagging thought in the back of <em>this kid’s</em> mind … or your own mind?</p>
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