Valedictorians and "Playing by the Rules"

<p>Wow you guys really have super elite schools. I only took one AP class for US History and got a 4 (yea, I guess I'm stupid in comparision to you people) and really to be a Val you have to take all 5 AP's at my school, have some leadership skills and that's it</p>

<p>My school moved to 4.0 unweighted system a few years ago, did away with all but one AP class (and substituted "dual enrollment" courses taught based on a college curriculum) and now we have multiple valedictorians. For example, in my class, three of us had 4.0s in a class of 177. We all took the same "hard" classes. I happened to score slightly higher on the standardized test scores and was nominated to the All Area Academic Team (only one of us could become a member because of school size). I think this helped separate me in the class and, yes, I marketed it.</p>

<p>A friend of mine, who was number 7 in a private school with 16 graduates, made the USA Today All American Honorable Mention team. However, he didn't even qualify for the local All Area Academic Team. He and the others ahead of him could have gone to local public schools and been number one in their class. I got accepted to some top 25 universities and he is going to a school most people have never heard of. (The USA Today rankings are not released until admittance decisions have been made.)</p>

<p>In my opinion, the problem is grade inflation at many schools, including mine.</p>

<p>I graduated from my school with a 3.8. I was in the gifted program, all honors classes, and took nothing but AP. I was ranked #82 in my class of 520. I got to the point where I realized that it was more important for me to enjoy my high school years then it was for me to try to obtain the unobtainable 4.9 that the valedictorian of my class had. That poor kid had NO life, and honestly, though he might be at Harvard, I feel bad for him.</p>

<p>At my son's high school the Val and Sal this year were definitely the top students of the class, though a gym class made the difference in who got which spot (pretty stupid, as most kids agree the Sal was more deserving due to classroom performance in academic classes.) However, the same cannot be said of previous years due to some of the same tricks and game playing described here.</p>

<p>The fact that taking classes at community college during the year and over the summer is a way to boost GPA at so many schools concerns me greatly, since this is yet another factor that works against kids of lesser economic means. Those classes cost money that many families don't have. My children have not been able to take summer classes to boost their GPA or to move into even more advanced classes because our family can't afford it. They've done well, but could have done better. </p>

<p>On an optimistic note, it seems that the true top students who may not make Val or Sal will still manage to demonstrate excellence in other ways and smart colleges will notice. AP test scores, for instance, can really can show who are the best students--and these are not necessarily those with the highest grades in the class! Grading is often subjective, and can be influenced but factors secondary to mastery of the subject matter. My pet peeve is when teachers grade science and math projects on how creative and artistic they are. My son isn't at all artistic or good at crafts, so this hurt him even in classes like AP Bio. So I wasn't totally surprised to hear that many of the kids with the highest GPA's did not get great AP scores. After all, College Board doesn't care how well you draw. I wasn't Val or Sal because I took chorus instead of a study hall, but it became evident that I was one of the best students when at the senior awards assembly when I won the majority of the "best in suject area" honors. The real problem is that Val and Sal status is generally announced in time for college applications, and other honors such as senior awards, merit scholarships, senior year AP scores, and the state AP scholar commendations arrive too late for consideration in the application process. That's why Val and Sal status still matters more than it should.</p>

<p>The valedictorian and salutatorian at my school were always neck and neck. My school has a weighted GPA system, and it's a pretty small school with almost no room to create your own schedule. For example, I was in Honors I, and you can only be in AP classes if you're in that class. And the same people I was with for math were the same people I was with for english.</p>

<p>Why is this important to explain? The Val & Sal both tested out of Algebra I my freshman year. So while the rest of us "high achievers" were taking on both Algebra II and Pre-Calculus in sophomore year, they had the rare opportunity to take a class the the rest of us couldn't take. The Val took an Honors I French class while the Sal took some typing course. That ruined the Sal's chances because like I said before, my school goes by a weighted GPA system. If she had just taken an Honors I course like the Val did, she could've been #1 -- or TIED at #1. They were both extremely bright -- Commended Merit Scholars, straight A's throughout high school, etc, but at graduation the Sal was the one winning most of the department awards.</p>

<p>Algebra I is the only subjest students are allowed to test out of. It may not seem like a big deal, but if you can do that, you have a greater chance of coming out on top just because you can take an extra Honors I course. I think that made all the difference in getting that #1 rank because we (as in my Honors I class), for the most part, all took the hardest courses.</p>

<p>yeah, that thing about the 40+ valedictorians is pretty absurd. I went to a school nearby until I transferred after sophomore year, and they had a similar system. You'd get a +0.5 boost for AP classes, and everybody w/ above a 4.0w would get to go up and talk. Most boring, rambling, etc damn graduation ever.</p>

<p>"what is sad is people that have no life whatsoever...at the end come to realize they havent lived life deliberatly. maybe some people should read some thoreau or move to the woods themselves. ic people taking so many things to the extremes. aka...no lunch....i admire determination but really after u go to college hs doesnt mean shet. im going to a prestigious college, once ur here buddy that doesnt mean anythign." - serge</p>

<p>serge, i was far from being a no-lifer. i ran 50 of 52 weeks in a year training for XC and track, had a GF, partied hard, and was not a social outcast whatsoever.</p>

<p>Screw valedictorian.</p>

<p>I used to think it would be really awesome to have the highest GPA in the whole school. But then I realized that what was most important was that I stay in marching band for all 4 years because I enjoyed it and learned a lot from it. Marching band wasn't honors, nor was Wind Ensemble, so I couldn't be valedictorian.</p>

<p>I fretted about this for a while, then I decided it didn't matter. I participated in other clubs in addition to band and was very happy with my experience. I graduated 6th or 9th in my class, don't even remember now, and I go to Stanford. The valedictorian of my class was rejected at UCLA, I believe. She took the most AP's and got straight A's, but she rarely participated in class and was in a couple clubs with no leadership.</p>

<p>The moral of the story is that colleges WILL see who you are... so please don't give up something you love just to take more AP's.</p>

<p>I go to a really big high school so we have the 30-something valedictorians officially recognized by the school, but there is still only 1 number one, who is usually called the "real" valedictorian. </p>

<p>Being number 1 looks really good because we have average graduating class sizes of 1000 people. :P</p>

<p>I knew a guy who became valedictorian because he was the only senior in his graduating class :P</p>

<p>To be valedictorian at my school you usually have to be full IB + take precalc freshman year + take Spanish/French II or III freshman year + take lots of random college classes during the school year. And get As in everything.</p>

<p>My school is lagging behind the rest of the county and refuses to catch up with reality and do vals/sals by weighted GPA. Contrary to a lot of school, ours offers over 20 APs (and most of them are pretty good, not jokes although a few are). Plus, an abundance of easy, no sweat electives. Thus, upon entering high school you have a choice: am I going to slack off and get easy A's just to be valedictorian, despite the fact I'm sacrificing my high school education or will I challenge myself with a rigorous schedule and face the fact I might not be valedictorian? I chose the latter, mostly because I knew I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I got valedictorian and I didn't deserve it. Valedictorian is supposed to represent academic merit and achievement, it is not to measure how well you play the system. </p>

<p>Fortunately, after 6 AP classes thus far (and 7 in progress, excluding independent study) and a lot of honors, I am still number 1 weighted and unweighted. But, there is one guy who will have taken a total of like 4ish APs, and some honors...who will be valedictorian if I get one (ONE!) B this year, because he is taking easier classes. Specifically, our AP English teacher is extremely difficult (amazing, but impossibly hard). I scraped away with an A last year, but he has admittedly taken honors to avoid getting a B (and presumably missing out on valedictorian). So I'm just praying I can get through this year with all A's. </p>

<p>If the shcool would just let the number one weighted person get it, I wouldn't worry at all, because my weighted GPA is way higher since I've taken more APs. But, it's ok, I enjoy a challenge =).</p>

<p>(Just want to clarify I'm taking AP because I like the challenge and the courses, not just to get ahead).</p>

<p>My kids school doesn't weight grades, which in hindsight is a good thing. Both were Vals and a bunch of their friends were too. They had a great time "together", rather than trying to beat one other by that .00001%. One class had 7 (of 700) and the other 6 (of 610). Yea, if weighted both mine would have been #1, and the other kids parents wouldn't have spoken to us and crap would have been said or done that would have been painful. Instead they are friends and have gone off to college all over the country with good deals and they keep in touch. </p>

<p>While I can understand the why a school would only want one #1, I can also understand why a school would have several. I kind of pity those that only have one, because it creates unnecessary pressure on kids who should be sticking together to deal with all the other aspects of HS.</p>

<p>It's not that having one would tear us a apart. Last year, 5 out of the 6 vals and the sal were really close friends. BUT, they still agreed that the one girl who haad the number one weighted should have gotten it because she took the most rigorous classes she could and excelled in them.</p>

<p>The thing is the concept of valedictorian. It's supposed to carry prestige and honor, not be an award for you getting an A in super easy classes. It should go to the person that challenged his or herself and STILL did well. But that is my opinion. </p>

<p>Also, if parents will hate other parents because their child didn't get val..I'd say that's pretty immature on their part. I know how important my parents have been to me and my success, but the thing is: this is my life, I'm not going to be val just because of them nor am I going to miss out on val because of them. If being val is my goal, then it's my responsibility to reach it. It's my responsibility to do my homework and do well in school. No matter what, I know my parents will love and support me no matter what my class rank is, because I've given them the satisifaction that their daughter is doing her best even with very difficult classes. My parents would never be mad at the other kids' parents jsut because they got val and I didn't. But, I know a lot of parents aren't like mine, and won't settle for less than number one...But I often ask myself if that is how it should be, because it's not about them, it's about their kid. </p>

<p>Just my opinion of course.</p>

<p>haha our school is absolutely ridiculuous. We have this "pass/fail" system that basically gets rid of one of your classes on your schedule, thus increasing your GPA. Your class rank then, goes up to. I hate when people do this though because it doesn't show your real potential to work.</p>

<p>LifeUnfolding...i agree 110% with what u said in your last post</p>

<p>my parents want me 2 be #1 also, even though i take the Most APs and advanced classes in my grade, idk if i will be, but i know that they know that i work my a** off in school work, projects, research papers, etc. and everything like that, and that they wouldn't be mad if i wasnt #1, but they'd be happy that i did my best and got into a good college</p>

<p>i mean, after all, it is different from school to school...you could be #1 in one school, and ur GPA could be a 3.0, while in another school, you could be #130, but your GPA would be like a 3.8, so then you have to factor in other aspects like your GPA with and w/o the weight and hte advanced classes taken</p>

<p>I have taken almost every AP offered at the school, and even do some stuff at the college, and I am number one in my class.</p>

<p>This valedictorian business is BS. It even made my friend mad and cry when she found out this newbie was #1, so far, in our class. It sucks when a new person in town comes to ur school and steels ur rank. Especially when that person took only 4 out of 7 honors classes and still managed a 4.85 GPA, while i had a 4.7 w/ all together 7 honors classes (out of 10 credited courses)</p>

<p>Fortunately, my school ranks by going distinguished honors, honors, then regular. You get higher up by taking certain classes, but you don't HAVE to take any APs to get distinguished honors.</p>

<p>.-_-.</p>

<p>i think it's unfair when someone cheats their way to the top. i took a few more AP classes than this one guy and got all A's. he blew off the classes, got a 4 on the AP exam, got his grades changed to A's and he ended up ahead of me because i took more 4.0 classes than 5.0. not to mention this guy has a record of cheating on lots of tests, labs, and homework. he also cheated off of me on an ap final. he also beat out 4 other more deserving people by cheating.</p>

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It sucks when a new person in town comes to ur school and steels ur rank. Especially when that person took only 4 out of 7 honors classes and still managed a 4.85 GPA, while i had a 4.7 w/ all together 7 honors classes (out of 10 credited courses)

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<p>In our county they have a rule saying you have to have lived in the county for several years before being valedictorian. But yeah, it does suck.</p>