<p>hi everyone!</p>
<p>i'm a student from munich, germany, i'm in my last year of school and i'd like to start my undergraduate studies at a reputable us-college in fall 2012 (major in math)</p>
<p>my problem is that i can't really estimate how valuable my german grades are in the us...</p>
<p>it would be great if anyone who is familiar with the german educational system could give me advice,
-> but also if you could just tell me whether germans get into good colleges considerably easy or not ;)</p>
<p>the facts: </p>
<p>i guess i will achieve an average of 1.5 to 1.6 in the bavarian abitur (on a range between 1 and 6 with 1.0 being the best average)
that means i'd be in the top 10% of bavarian students that attend the so-called 'gymnasium' (these again are aprox. the top 45% of all bavarian students)</p>
<p>my extracurricular actvities:
-i'm in a gymnastics club, took part in the 2nd german gymnastics-'bundesliga' and was 3rd in the bavarian championships in 2010
-in the last years i was coach for our younger gymnasts
-i'm planning to do voluntary work in india in winter 2012 (about 4 months)
-founded a newspaper for our class in year 7 :D
unfortunately i have no work experience except working in a small shop selling all types of beverages...</p>
<p>given that, are there any realistic prospects of gettin into one of those very prestigious universities such as princeton, upenn or cornell?
...or would it be more effective to concentrate on applications to some liberal arts colleges like colby, bates, vassar...?</p>
<p>thanks in advance! ;)</p>
<p>Well, the top schools are familiar with the Abitur, but you obviously will have to have excellent SAT or ACT scores, too. However, you have to realize that American high school grades are usually higher than German grades; at many schools, the top 10-15% or even more have all A’s (equivalent to 1.0). Also, onece you reach that point, you have to make sure that whoever writes your letters of recomemndations realizes that German understatement won’t do.</p>
<p>Honestly, you also have to realize that US colleges are a lot more like a German boarding school; a lot more required classes, homework, and hand-holding, and you don’t study only your major. If you think you prefer that kind of system, you could also look at the university colleges in the Netherlands (taught in English) or at Scottish universities. Both are way cheaper than US colleges. Also, at least at the top US universities, you will work way more than at any German university. </p>
<p>Another option, which many Germans take, is to go to a German university, get an intermediate exam (Vordiplom, Zwischenpruefung), which then allows you to enter an MA/MS program here in the US. Then back to Germany and straight into a PhD program. </p>
<p>Finally, since it sounds like you are a very good gymnast, you could try to get recruited as an athlete.</p>
<p>well, due to the fact that i will do a gap year i have quite a lot of time to prepare for the SAT (and TOEFL aswell) after school… 
yeah, heard about that understatment stuff and americans as describing everything as ‘great’, but i know some teachers being quite familiar with the us… i am sure the recommendations would not be the biggest problem…</p>
<p>i already informed myself a lot so i already decided that i would prefer most us colleges to german universities, and, yeah, something more like a boarding school is exactly what i am looking for^^ things like living on campus, a bit more of corporate feeling than at the big and ‘anonymous’ german universities and so on… (mainly the opposite to both universities in munich)
additionally i think it is important to study subjects other than your major aswell and even in mathematics some interdisciplinary approach is quite good.
…and more work is okay, especially if i were at a top university i would get a good education and a good degree in return ;)</p>
<p>because of the financial aspect i thought of applying for financial aid (my parents wont be able to pay all the costs but especially the liberal arts colleges seem to have quite gnerous international financial aid)</p>
<p>doing my bachelor in germany and the master in the us would be plan b. :D</p>
<p>mainly my problem is that i cannot estimate wether it is effective to apply for some top institutions or if it is ‘just a waste of time’…</p>
<p>You should take this question to the International Students Forum. Click on “Discussion Home” in the upper-left of this screen, and scroll down to find it. Look for anything posted by b@r!um who is a German student now in college in the US.</p>
<p>You also need to read through everything at [EducationUSA</a> | Study Abroad, Student Visa, University Fairs, College Applications and Study in the U.S. / America](<a href=“http://www.educationusa.info/]EducationUSA”>http://www.educationusa.info/) Then, make an appointment with the counselors at the advising center closest to where you live. There are several in Germany [EducationUSA</a> - Find an Advising Center](<a href=“http://www.educationusa.info/Germany]EducationUSA”>Germany | EducationUSA) These counselors are expert at helping German students find good places to study in the US.</p>
<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>
<p>A few points:
The valedictorian at Princeton (2 or 3 years ago) was a graduate of the International School of Frankfurt.
The ivy league schools have very generous financial aid, including international students.
You should seriously look into getting recruited for gymnastics. If your grades are good enough — and they are) and your test scores will be high enough, this would give you a huge boost.
Check out the schools you might be interested in to see if they have gymnastics and then email the coaches. You can also send me a PM.</p>
<p>@beenthere2
“However, you have to realize that American high school grades are usually higher than German grades; at many schools, the top 10-15% or even more have all A’s (equivalent to 1.0).”
The curriculum at a Bavarian Gymnasium is much more rigorous than in the United States, you can’t pick and choose the subjects you’re good in, everything gets taught at the same level, well except in the old G9-program, where each student picks two advanced classes. But that program is dying out. This year the last g9 year will be graduating this May. Most colleges are familiar with this, and it should also be in the School Profile the counselor sends. Also, according to WES Grade Converter, 1 and 2 in Germany are both “equal” to an A, so all As doesn’t mean 1.0.</p>
<p>“Honestly, you also have to realize that US colleges are a lot more like a German boarding school; a lot more required classes, homework, and hand-holding, and you don’t study only your major.”
For someone who has passed the Bavarian Abitur this shouldn’t be a problem. The workload is much higher. You have over to 30 hours of CLASSES a week, and a bunch of homework on top of that. Plus, with the Abitur you should be able to test out of some classes and get credit.</p>
<p>thanks for evaluating so far ;)</p>
<p>@beenthere2
the problem with gymnastics is that i was injured twice during the last year, which meant that i could only go to training in 4 months overall… an i still am…
so i guess i’m not very likely to get recruited for gymnastics
additionally the only well-known universities offering gymnastics are uc berkeley and stanford. regarding the financial aid i can forget berkeley, and only relying on stanford… well…</p>
<p>@xnamelessx
i am one of the g8-guys graduating this year 
as you seem to be familiar with both systems:
do you think i would have realistic chances to get accepted at some top universities? (considering my grades)</p>
<p>It’s really impossible to say. International students generally have a lot lower chance of being accepted to top schools, regardless of the grades. And it’s hard enough to “chance” Americans for top schools because so many of the applicants have excellent stats. There’s really a lot of luck involved. </p>
<p>I’m in the last G9 year, I’ll be graduating this May. :)</p>
<p>1.5 on the Abi is impressive; once they convert it in the admissions office, you’ll be in good shape.</p>
<p>I am very familiar with the German school system. If they indeed convert a 2 to an A, you’re in good shape.
With respect to work load, I was comparing German universities to the top US universities, and I can tell you (based on personal experience) that US students at the top institutions work their butts off. On the other hand, they’re right on campus, get delicious meals (more or less) and are usually well taken care of. </p>
<p>As an aside, students at the top US high schools work at least as hard (probably harder) than Bavarian Gymnasiasten (sorry) and those are the kids you’re competing against. They take classes from about 7:30 until 3 pm (with a 30 minute lunch break), then they have mandatory sports, and they’re home by around 7 pm with about 3-5 hours of homework to do every night. Weekends are packed with sports and additional homework.</p>
<p>As far as I know, international students only compete with other international students. At least this is true for the universities to which I’m applying.</p>
<p>@beenthere2: if you leave out the sport and replace it by studying then you approximately get what i am doing at the moment :D</p>