Interesting to know that improving academics is not considered the most important issue
It’s nice to hear that this is becoming more of a priority at Vanderbilt, but I just hope that the execution works out. They tried to increase diversity with the Malaysia program, but that was a complete fiasco. The Malaysian students would just hang out by themselves and never talk to any other students. It’s hard to say if the problem was that the Malaysian students didn’t want to interact with other students, or if the other students just segregated against them. Nevertheless, that diversity plan didn’t go over too well. I heard that the program was shut down, or will shut down in the near future.
I just hope that Vandy does a better job of actively integrating minority students into Vandy instead of just bringing them here and just letting the students figure it out themselves, because that clearly didn’t work out too well.
The problem with diversity is there are so many different ways to define it. An arguement can be made VU is the most diverse U in the country. Elite students, faculty, academics, research, athletes (NCAA baseball and womens tennis champions), great school of music, divinity, education, top grad programs and medical center. Only a a few U’s (Stanford, Duke, NDU) are that diverse, have students with so many different skill sets, and have students that excel at an elite level in so many different areas.
Too often U’s pat themself on the back because students look different but on closer inspection these students come from similar academically enriched private and magnet HS’s, have the same academic profile, the same God, same tax bracket, play soccer, the violin, volunteer at a hospital and are pre-med. Sometimes you get more diversity from students living 5 miles apart who look the same. I agree about increasing inclusion of more students. Too often top U’s accept students from the same HS’s year, after year, after year, and then wonder why they are not diverse. It would be neat to see VU only accept students from HS’s that have not been represented in 10 years next year. That would bring some diversity and inclusion to campus very quickly. Unfortunately students from 33% of US HS’s have little to no chance of acceptance to elite universities. Other HS’s have 25% of their students accepted to elite U’s. Guess which HS’s have well funded students?
Derp is spot on. More diverse U’s tend to have more self segregation. Less diverse U’s have more integration of minority students as these students have no other options. All U’s must do more to integrate minority students on their campus.
I would also tell Zappos “Hello, it’s the cost of higher education” that needs to be the number one issue. If cost is not controlled they will not survive in the future.
Interesting.
I had lunch at Rand over the weekend and I noted how diverse the student body is … and yet, how self-segregated all the groups are.
Sorority girls at one table, black students at another, Asian students at another … yada yada yada.
I hate to be “that guy”, but I feel like if the Greek system was diminished or just simply removed, a lot of the problems with diversity would be solved. Like @KaMaMom said, there is diversity within the student body, but they just don’t interact with each other. This is because the social scene is completely dominated by the Greek scene.
Where do the white students go to meet friends? Frats. Where do the Asian students go to meet friends? One of the Asian diversity clubs like AASA, VUCA, KUSA, etc. Where do the black students go to meet friends? The black fraternities. Where do Indians go to make friends? One of the Indian diversity clubs like the Bhangradores. These are the clubs and societies that matter. Very few people actually make friends in a club like VSVS. The problem is, one of these (frats) completely dominates the others.
It would be fine if they were all on the same social level, but I doubt that anyone at Vandy would deny that the frats are the most prominent social groups. This creates a problem where the whites at Vandy have no need/want to interact with minority students because the white students are already part of the Vandy mainstream. They like being at the top, and they don’t want to equalize everything. Thus, the minority students at Vandy are pretty much shut out of the social scene. They have no opportunities to make friends with white students, because the minority students have such a low chance of getting into the frats that the white students are in. At the same time, the white students don’t ever come into contact with the minority students because there are so few minorities in the frats.
It’s always so interesting to me how different people have such different experiences and observations. I’ve read the recent comments from posters mentioning the lack of diversity at Vanderbilt, and I don’t doubt that it is truly a problem.
But there’s a disconnect when I hear my sophomore D talk about her circle of friends. Just in the last couple of conversations with me since she got back to campus, she has mentioned her Indian roommate (and good friend), her closest friend who is AA, a Malaysian friend, a Chinese friend, a devout Muslim friend, a devout Jewish friend, a Rwandan friend, and a transgendered atheist friend. My D is a white conservative Christian from the Bible Belt.
These are people she spends a lot of her time with, people she cares about deeply. I’m not sure how she came to be friends with such a diverse crowd, but D loves it. It’s what she hoped for in choosing to go to Vanderbilt.
I can only assume her experience is not the norm. So what do you all think the faculty and staff should do to foster diversity and inclusion among the students? For current students here who are minorities, if you could rule Vandy for a while, what would you change? What do diversity and inclusion look like to you?
@Belle315 I mean this in the nicest way possible and mean no offense…but I knew in the middle of your second paragraph that your daughter was white. This is what I was talking about in my 2nd post. The whites have all the social power at Vandy. I’d very strongly argue that there are more white students with minority friends than there are minority students with white friends. This is because the whites actually have a choice. If a white student wants to meet and talk to minority students, just go to one of the diversity clubs, which are very accepting of all students. But what if a minority student wants to be friends with a white student? What options are there? It’s a LOT harder for minority students to get into frats and sororities.
The point of my post isn’t that all white students shun diversity. Of course there are some white students who are very unbiased and accepting of all races. Your daughter seems to be one of these students. However, my point is that she had a CHOICE. She could make friends with minorities if she wanted, and she could have also gone Greek if she wanted. However, minority students have a much more limited choice. They cannot (have a much harder time) going Greek, so many of them are forced into diversity groups. They have a much harder time getting integrated into “white” Vanderbilt, while white students have a much easier time getting integrated into “diverse” Vanderbilt.
Vandy definitely needs more students like your daughter though. A step in the right direction.
Rice U has no Greek system. As I understand it, through all 4 years you live with the diverse group in your residential college. I wonder if this forced mixing helps.
Regarding lack of diversity at Vandy, it seems to me that the problem is not just the Greek system, but that after their first year students are allowed to live with their friends in suites. Of course, most colleges are that way. Including some residential colleges (but not Rice, I think?).
SoCal, I am not aware of any college that prevents students from living with friends or selecting their roommates. In general young adults frown at forced mixing. Try to set your daughter up with a friends son. It is worth noting Greek students live in the dorms mixed in with the non-Greek students. Vanderbilt has also started a residential college system with Owen and Warren dorms and it gives Vandy students this option as well. My guess is Vandy will grow the residential college dorm system and use this to help integrate its diverse student body.
@SoCalDad2 : I don’t know if infrastructure has to do with it as much. Vanderbilt’s ethnic diversity has only recently shot up over the last 1/2 decade or so, so there will likely be growing pains…Also, Greek systems can be very mixed themselves. Duke and Emory are examples. While there are options to join special interest/ethnic fraternities, most of the ones one associate with Caucasian students end up very mixed, especially with Asians (including southeast Asian). This may mainly be because the percent of Asians is just so much higher at the two, usually being well over the 12% Vanderbilt has just for domestic students, and then maybe double or more after internationals are thrown in (however, internationals are essentially irrelevant for Greek life as that tends to draw mostly domestic students).
Also, I’m curious about whether it is actually harder for minorities to join Greek life or if many just do not attempt to. I can potentially see it being harder if many Greek students come in and form cliques and they just so happen to be ethnically uniform. I suppose this would could continue to sophomore years (as in when they get to play a role in recruiting, they mainly only end up befriending more underclassmen of the same ethnic group before recruiting restarts. Naturally, since these people are already preferred because they are friends or good acquaintances). I just cannot envision Greeks consciously or even subconsciously excluding minorities merely because of race/cultural norms they find more attractive. I’m willing to bet it is a “it is about who you know” type of thing (kind of like if you are a business student and you do well at an internship opp…it may easily convert into a job offer).
@georgiaonmymind : Even if he doesn’t think academic improvement is as important, what matters is that VU faculty do: http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2015/08/immersion-cross-college-teaching-strategic-initiatives-taking-shape/
It is about time. However, the chancellor and the faculty may just have different ideas of what may be priorities. The Chancellor may be more steered toward things that will continue to attract perfect students, which would therefore thus focus on social climate issues and diversity among students and faculty. The faculty are naturally more concerned about what students do when they get there. Either way, to let this plan begin to be developed the Chancellor must also agree that academics are of course a very high priority. However, him discussing it isn’t the thing that gets the attention of prospective students, faculty, or parents who are squeamish about their interest due to issues in the area he speaks of. Schools that aren’t actually having but so much issues with that you will notice probably talk (as in administrators and articles will emphasize) more about education and academic programs at the beginning of the year…unless of course, new construction is happening. One of the biggest ways to market is show off a fancy new building that was built or is being built…mention hardly nothing about what will happen inside academically, but just brag about how pretty it will be, the students it will attract, and give some general ideas of what centers and depts it may contain. All schools are guilty of such gimmicks. Usually no mentions are given to how the building will change education, especially for undergrads. And often, it won’t at all. Students will learn the same way and the same content in a shiny new building. This is especially the case when it is a STEM building which is a shame because they could be an opp. to actually do things differently. And even if it were to be that aspect would not be highlighted in articles.
I was referring to the “forced mixing” that results from putting a diverse group of people together in a dorm.
I have no idea what the residential college system has to do with it. Schools that don’t have it are just fine. Often the freshman and sophomore years set the tone. If various social clubs on campus that are diverse or for ethnic niches have HUGE influence over social climate on campus, then students are more likely to mix and go to even smaller events hosted by those places. If not, then students (whether they be ethnically uniform or not) will gravitate toward the organization or whatever that has a monopoly. derp claims that this is Greeklife and that it is somewhat ethnically uniform. It may also have to do with how Cosmopolitan students attracted to the school are to begin with. It isn’t about just being smart and having diverse cultures and skin-colors that make people want to mix. It has to likely be something they’ve been very exposed to or always desired before even coming or else the school has do a lot more work to make it happen. At other schools, often it is the international students (particularly those that did not attend international schools) that are hard to "integrate because of this. It just so happens to be fortunate that they are a clear minority (even if a somewhat sizable one 10-20% in most cases). Often domestic students at private schools with say 50-55% whites are fine.
@SoCaldad2 , to my knowledge, Vanderbilt is actually slowly working toward a college hall system where students at least have the option to remain in the same dorm throughout their time at Vandy. This is the newest dorms work (Warren & Moore). My understanding is that all future dorms will be built within the same system.
I really appreciate your point of view and your insight into the dynamics of diversity (or the lack thereof) on campus. You are right, she certainly felt she had a choice. I honestly had not thought about that not being the case for so many other students.
Can you help me understand why minorities do not feel they would be accepted in the Greek system at Vanderbilt? Is there overt bigotry, or is it a more subtle sense that they are not welcomed? Both of which are disturbing, of course.
My daughter’s closest friend, who is AA, wanted to rush last year, but her parents would not allow it. They felt that she would be mistreated, and they may well be right. They have heavily pressured her to join the majority black organizations and have a majority of black friends. I’m curious to know how this anecdote relates to your observations.
I’d also like to point out that there is a lot of self-selection in Greek life. Here’s some insider info from someone who was involved in fraternity rushing and coordinated with other fraternity rush chairs: When there was an African American student actively interested in Greek life, fraternities would compete for him. It is rare for an African American student to WANT to be in a fraternity and continue rushing throughout the entire semester. We are all seeking more diversity and we struggle to find minority students that actually want to participate in the fraternity culture. (As a disclaimer, not ALL fraternities feel this way, but most do). The routine of dressing like a frat boy and drinking large quantities of warm beer tends to not appeal to minority students. Plus there’s the price of dues. The fact that fraternities/sororities are predominantly upper-middle class white students surely doesn’t help minority students feel comfortable during the rush process, when they could just as well retreat to student orgs where members are predominantly of their own race or nationality.
I’ve always felt that the Greek system at Vanderbilt just caters to upper-middle class students. The culture and dues definitely discourage students from low-income families from joining; it can be hard to dress and live like a Greek student when you don’t have the financial freedom. It just so happens that white students are more likely to be affluent than minority students. In my experience, the minority students who do join Greek life tend to be affluent, which is perhaps why they find themselves fitting into the Greek culture, regardless of their skin color.
I’ve mentioned this from before, but what we’ve seen in Greek rush process is that minority students are just less likely to even sign up for the rush process, for both fraternities and sororities.
Did the parents think she would mistreated because of her ethnicity or just did not want the student engaged in the rituals and traditions that are often part of the process of being in a Greek organization?
Also kind of weird that there is a “Greek culture” (go with me, I’m being facetious here). Be careful with that phrase as it may inadvertently confirm certain stereotypes for some folks. I honestly think some Greek members at top schools do fit say, the state school stereotypes, but certainly not all. They all of course try to work pretty hard to stay afloat and do well academically, but not all of said people may be as intellectually focused as the independents. There are, of course, tons of exceptions. But yes, Pancaked, you are correct about the affluence thing. This is definitely the case at elite institutions where basically most students are affluent or upper middle class in the first place. Then further segregation may happen along SE lines. However, I would note that elite schools contain high numbers of upper middle class and wealthy URMs as those in low income categories often do not tend to even apply to such schools as studies have been showing. What would be interesting to see, is whether or not there may be some correlation between say, the number of Questbridge Scholars (which yes, often includes many non-URMs, but does indeed include lots of URM’s and even lower/pure middle income ORM’s: several QB friends I had were Asian of some sort) or Gates-Millennium Scholars and the social climate on a campus (at a selective private) with a high Greek population (30% +).
@Belle315
I want to preface this by saying that when I say Greek life, I’m talking about the frats and sororities that have a real social scene. I’m not talking about black, Christian, pre-med, business, etc fraternities.
It’s the image that the Greek life puts out. Whenever the frats and sororities send out recruitment flyers, the pictures always have diverse students in them. However, once you stay on campus for a few weeks, you realize what’s actually going on.
Here are some pictures:
http://vandytridelt.■■■■■■■■■■/
http://vandytheta.■■■■■■■■■■/
http://vanderbilt.kappaalphatheta.org/scrapbook
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/47/1f/1e/471f1e784a905efca4f87b92b0a4b1a9.jpg
How many minorities do you see in these pictures? Outside of the random Asian girl, you can see that the vast majority of them are white. What @Pancaked said may have some truth. I know that I didn’t rush (Asian). However, if you are a minority looking at these pictures, it can be a very daunting and unappealing prospect to even ATTEMPT to rush. If I was white, I would feel very comfortable because I would immediately know that I would “fit in”.
I would also tell your daughter’s friend not to rush. I think that AA females have an even worse time than Asian females when it comes to Greek life. This is because (and I’m not trying to start a race war here) Asian females are so heavily fetishized in this society that some sororities take them to be seem more attractive to fraternities. I do feel bad for the AA females, which are virtually non-existent in sororities. The 1% of the most attractive Asian females manage to squeeze into sororities.
Wow. A picture is worth a thousand words, isn’t it?
To answer your question, @derp125, D’s friend’s parents were worried about racial discrimination. It saddens me that this might be the case.
Having lived in regions of the world where whites were most definitely the minority, I sympathize with how exhausting it can be to constantly live outside one’s “comfort zone”, so to speak. I can imagine this is how it must feel for so many minorities living on a white, Greek dominated campus.
On a positive note, it seems Zappos has his finger on the pulse. The last thing Vanderbilt should want is to return to its old reputation as a “white, rich, Southern” school, like it was in my day.
It is still is.
It isn’t southern anymore…the regional demographics have shifted some at least. It’s basically now like most elites but with more domestic students, and I guess more whites (I suppose ND has a similar amount of whites).