So I am an Indian kid from Boston, although I’m super light skinned. I visited Vanderbilt and I loved the campus, love the programs, and I loved the atmosphere around Nashville too. However, I was a bit worried about the diversity in and around the city/campus. I’m not claiming that all people in the South are racist or anything, I was just wondering what it was like as a minority in the city and in the school. If anyone could shed some light that would be great! Thank you!
Always find it amusing when people wonder if the south is more racist than other parts of the country. Forget study abroad. There needs to be more travel within the U.S. for those students who only know their home state. They might be surprised to learn how wrong most stereotypes are.
I’m from the north. Difference is like night and day. The stereotypes are correct.
Overt racism in the city, covert racism on campus. Pick your poison.
Nashville is no NYC or LA, but it is also not backwoods Appalachia. Although it may seem small compared to those megalopolises, it is by no means some stereotypical southern small town; it is a cosmopolitan city second only to Atlanta in the southeast. The city is experiencing a great period of growth into a much more worldly city, and becoming much more diverse than it once was. For example, Nashville is home to its own “little Kurdistan,” and contains the greatest population of Kurds in the US. In my experience, there is not significant racism expressed by locals.
Students here are mostly northerners anyway, so you should know what to expect from your peers. I also have not known there to be significant racism on campus. Minority cultural groups have a very healthy presence on campus and their events are well attended, but do not enforce any social segregation. Specific to you, out of all the minority groups, Indians seem to be the most integrated in the mainstream (generally white) Vanderbilt culture. Many Indian students are active in Greek life in all different “tiers” of frats and sororities.
I would disagree with derp125. I am not trying to invalidate his experiences; there certainly could be some problems with racial integration on campus, and some individuals will experience them more than others. However, we often disagree due to the fact that his opinion of Vanderbilt is invariably and overwhelmingly negative on nearly every issue. This completely monolithic portrayal lacks the nuance and ambiguity that colors most human experience, and is quite frankly devoid of both objectivity and utility for the prospective student. Certainly listen to his opinions, but I might not take seriously this type of answer: “yep. Stereotypes=true. Super racist. Red neck grandpa racist. End of story. Don’t come here.”
Here’s my experience as a minority student.
1.) If you go to the rec on the weekends during the night, it is completely FILLED with minorities. Only happens on the weekends. Why is this? Because all the white students are at the frats. The minorities can’t get into those frat parties, so they just workout because there’s nothing else to do.
2.) Not really sure what fdgjfg is saying about how there are Indians in all tiers of Greek life. I don’t think I can post pictures on here, but if you look at the Facebook photos of frats and sororities, you can see that there are MAYBE 1-2 Indians per frat. Most of them don’t have any. Maybe fdgjfg was talking about minority frats, but I don’t know much about them since they don’t have much of a social presence.
Here are some tumblr pages for the sororities. Couldn’t find any for the frats.
http://vandykkg.■■■■■■■■■■/
http://vandytheta.■■■■■■■■■■/
Count the number of Indian girls you see in these pages. Seriously, go ahead and check.
3.) A complete lack of minority male/white female couples on campus. I have never, in my 3 years here, seen a single minority male/white female couple on campus. Ever. It just does not happen.
4.) In lecture halls, minority guys sit by themselves or with other minorities. I’ve been checking this in every class since sophomore year, and I can safely say that this is true 90% of the time. Doesn’t apply to minority girls.
Yes, these are all anecdotes, but these are also all things that I have seen with my own two eyes. They exist. None of the white kids want to acknowledge it for obvious reasons, so you have to talk to the minority students. It’s unfortunate that you couldn’t talk to any minorities during your tour, but maybe others on this forum can comment.
Second to Atlanta? What about Charlotte, Tampa, and Miami? It would be pretty behind Atlanta and Miami, maybe comparable to Charlotte, less behind Tampa. I mean, is it quite desirable right now? Sure…but not really by the same demographics as those cities.
Either way, if the OP SAW the campus and liked the programs (I’m wondering which ones) and the campus, then they should apply. Obviously nothing stood out and caught them off-guard. I’m honestly sure that if another minority posts, they’ll say it isn’t bad at all.
@derp125 #3-- guess you’ve not run into my D and her BF on campus then.
Thanks for your insight guys! I’m leaning away from Vanderbilt now because of this, but who knows maybe someone will comment and make me change my mind!
Hey folks I think Vanderbilt is a great school and all and Nashville a great city but I don’t think you can slough off Derp’s comments that easily. First of all he goes to the school. Second, his comments seem reasonable (i.e. not ad hominem, supported by first hand accounts / experience). Third, what about the Tumblr links? Did you look at them? I’m sure these are good people but surely not the most racially diverse group out there. Fourth, what about the comments of Chancellor Zeppos (who I think is a great guy and about whom I have posted compliments in the past) who has said that diversity is a number one challenge? I’m sympathetic to Derp on this one and I think it’s a very serious issue. I hope some other Vanderbilt people weigh in (for example 2 inanddone who appears to have some first hand experience). Are the issues Derp talks about a very tiny part of the Vandy experience or are they relatively common? Finally I would argue to the Vandy alums and supporters that you should you think hard about this because if it is a problem, solving it would make your already great university even better.
in reality, kids at Vanderbilt come from so many different backgrounds-- rural, urban, southern, northern, international, religions. I have been at Vanderbilt as a student, an instructor, and a parent. The area of town where Vandy is located is probably the most racially and religiously diverse area of town-- and definitely the most liberal. The on campus experience is what you make of it… if you are looking to confirm your belief that Vanderbilt is a place with covert racism–you will find those exemplars to confirm your own bias. But, if you open your eyes a bit more you’ll find a diverse population of students who enjoy intellectual challenge and a fun college atmosphere. And, you’ll find an administration and faculty that no where their weaknesses lie and work diligently to address them.
*know… yes Vanderbilt alums make stupid mistakes too
IMO, if you grew up in a predominately white neighborhood with mostly white friends you won’t have any problem at Vanderbilt. For better or worse, your social interactions at Vandy will be very similar to what you experienced in high school.
If you are interested in Greek life, most of the fraternities don’t care what color you are as long as you have a similar mind set as the other members. I was in a upper tier fraternity, yes, most were white, but there were 3 east Asians, 1 Indian and several Hispanics. BTW, they all dated white girls. There is overt and covert racism in every state of the union, I never found Nashville any worse.
@bernie12 I left the Florida cities out as they have a bit of a different culture and history along with different stereotypes that complicate their classification as “southeastern”. Nobody gets on CC asking if Miami is so overtly racist that an asian individual can’t live there.
In response to derp’s post:
1). This is just a silly comment. Even if the frats themselves are not diverse, they do not specifically exclude minorities from entering parties. If you are not in the frat, you will be let in the party as long as you have friends or acquaintances in the frat which is easy if you are social. Furthermore, greek life isn’t the end all be all of social life. If you don’t get into the party, go to the bars, go to lonnies, go to a concert or event in Nashville, or go to a dorm party. There is a constant stream of dorm parties held by friend groups composed of minorities. I have been to Korean parties, Indian parties, and many others. It is just wrong to say that you are forcibly confined to the rec on weekends if you are a minority.
2). I personally know Indian kids in SAE, AEPi, Kappa Sig, Sig Nu, FIJI, and ZBT. I am sure there are some in the other frats as well. Derp also chose to post the tumblrs for sororities with reputations for being “JAPy” and “southern” so those will be less diverse than others. Obviously there will only be a few in each group due to demographics. Vanderbilt is only 30% minority and 10% asian, so probably no greater than 5% Indian. This means relatively few Indian kids in each group.
3). This is a huge generalization. I have some good friends in minority male/white female relationships. Just from talking to girls and recalling events that transpired on weekend nights, girls are willing to hook up with minority guys.
4). Another rather strange generalization.
@kaukauna Diversity concerns should definitely be taken seriously, and I will not pretend that Vanderbilt has no diversity problems. The school’s social life is largely based on a vibrant greek life, which is itself an artifact of affluent white society. Those who fit into the greek system best fit into Vanderbilt, and those who best fit into the greek system know how to navigate white culture. This means, that like Vandyman2013 says, minorities with mostly white friends will fit in, while minorities with immigrant culture will not. The administration is currently in the process of slowly strangling greek life, which will make the campus more diverse. They are also working hard through programs such as MOSAIC to attract minorities. However, it seems that much of the lack of diversity is simply caused by a low percentage of minority students (30% here compared to 52% at a school like Duke). Unless the admissions department is discriminatory, it seems that less minority students apply to Vanderbilt, probably because of perpetuated stereotypes regarding the south.
I am also very willing to listen to opinions that differ from my own. However, derp’s perspective often end up being extremely reductive to the point of hyperbole. Minority guys systemically and as a rule forced to sit alone, confined to the rec, and ignored by girls? This just doesn’t seem very realistic. Vanderbilt could certainly be improved by increasing diversity. However, to characterize it as some sort of racist hellhole where KKK fratlords twirl their mustaches deviously while banning asian kids from every party is not a productive or realistic sentiment.
Isn’t Vandy relatively moderate in comparison to say Duke, Emory, and Rice though? If the surrounding area is a reflection, then “liberal” is relatively moderate in Nashville. As for race/ethic interaction…I guess it could be an issue but again, unless I really went to Vandy and saw what some people are talking about up close and in person, I suppose I just have a difficult time believing it being as bad as those folks claim.
fd…that’s a bit much…I think the person was just making the claim that “strained” interactions are noticeable. It probably doesn’t come from people directly resisting interaction as much as it just happening because of incoming background. However, again, Vanderbilt would not be the only place. The argument that Greeklife and its dominance socially may play a role in the dynamics of cross-ethnic interactions is actually not that surprising and could perhaps be possible. As for several Hispanics…often those coming to elites are like most other students at elites, upper-middle class. In fact, many may be hard to differentiate from white students depending on the country of origin.
@fdgjfg : Interestingly…while Miami may be a haven for Hispanics and Latinos, I had friends from Miami that suggested that Atlanta was honestly better with respect to Asian ethnicities (including SE such as Indian and Pakistani- Specifically, for this group, one Pakistani friend noted that food options were superior in Atlanta)…so I think that while Miami isn’t racist or anything, it isn’t perfectly cosmopolitan or befitting to all non-white ethnic groups. Anything in central and north Florida is kind of tricky and can perhaps be considered a good deal southern. Also, another exception is how Texas gets counted as SE by many. In that case, you must include Austin and Houston (I excluded Dallas because while very large, does not really have the extra ethnic and cultural features of Houston or Atlanta and certainly not Austin or Miami. I would consider it overall a pretty successful large southern city. However, their inability to handle the Ebola patients was kind of revealing about where they stood among the south’s “big 4”, if you include Miami, in terms of something as basic as a healthcare crisis).
Either way, I think, kind of like Los Angeles, Miami may be over-rated in how “happy” a multi-cultural city it is. It may not have the classic self-segregation of even middle-class blacks and whites that you see in Atlanta or DC (not southern perse but is another good example of this Prince George and Dekalb county are similar in that respect). There is likely much racial tension in a place like Miami that isn’t as visible because of media portrayals and the like. Either way, that isn’t the point of this thread.
Vandy was voted #1 for happiest students by the students, so I’m not sure how they would have gotten that number if there was even the slightest bit of racial tension on campus, I have gone to a prep school in NE for the last 7 years, and most of my friends are white. I don’t really play into my ethnicity at all, and when I visited campus again last night, I really tried to look into what the campus dynamic was like and I realized that there was plenty of mixing on campus, so I’m not really sure what to think. My other top choice is Duke, which was mentioned above as a fairly diverse school, and I definitely got that sense when I was visiting. My only worry about Duke is its competitiveness, especially as a bio/premed major.
Me thinks you worry too much. Going pre-med and competition go hand in hand where ever you go. It’s the nature of the beast.
You know what’s funny about those college happiness rankings? So the way it works is that the Princeton Review asks school administrations to send surveys to students via email. Thing is, I never received that email. Neither did any of my friends (who are almost all minorities). The one friend who did receive it was white and Greek. Just saying that Vandy may be manipulating the system a bit here…
Also, if you care about premed, do NOT come to Vandy lol. Just read the Vandy premed weedout thread. Bottom line is: you will get a bad GPA at Vandy (~3.3 on average), which will kill your med school dreams. On the other hand, if you were smart enough to get into Vandy and instead choose to go to a state school/LAC, youll easily get a high GPA there. And yeah, sure you might get a 4.0 at Vandy if you work hard enough (nobody gets a 4.0 lol), but is that hard work worth it? You’ll have to work your ass off if you want a 4.0 at Vandy, but you can get a 4.0 at a state school with minimal effort. And the value of those GPAs is roughly equal (Vandy’s has a bit more value, but it’s not worth the extra effort required).
my 2 cents worth:
-The more diverse a school becomes the more self segregation you see and the more effort is needed to insure all students are integrated with each other.
-Even very diverse schools have some issues with race. Sometimes the most diverse schools have the most problems.
-Vandy does a better job than most with bringing students together: Freshman dorms (Commons), clubs, Greek students live in dorms with non-Greeks, 90% of students live on campus (not spread out all over town), new residential housing options, etc…
-Nashville is more open and diverse than Durham. Nashville is a great city for young adults. It’s kind of like Boston in that when you go out, everywhere you go is full of adults 18-30 yrs old.
-Vandy consistently ranks among the best U’s for “Quality of Life” scores by students. These score include the integration of students with different backgrounds and town/gown relations.
-Pre-med will be difficult at both. Check out prior thread comments.
-Many of the urm and diverse students at top U’s are really pseudo-diverse students. They look different but otherwise have similar backgrounds and come from academically enriched private and magnet schools in the “burbs” of large metro, affluent areas, have leadership experience, play soccer, the violin and are pre-med. These students are generally well integrated and tend to blend in very easily on any campus.
-visit all schools you are interested in and observe and talk to students. Students tend to be very good at selecting the school environment they feel most comfortable in, so trust you gut feeling.
I think you really underestimate how hard a state school can be (especially if it’s a top-end state school, which is really the “bottom end” of the school level you’d want to go to and have a good shot at med school). Also note that some state schools use the AB grading scale in place of an A-/B+, which is a 3.5. Vandy gives A-s so if you slip a little you’ll still do pretty well GPA wise (3.7).
Your other option would be to go to a small, top 20 school that has grade deflation (Brown, Harvard, and apparently Stanford), but those are equally as tough to get into/transfer into.