^By all means, continue posting. Your opinions are valid and informative to potential students. My only point is that a diversity of opinions is more informative than a singular opinion (n=1 vs. n=10). I have never even said that my opinion in particular should be listened to, just a greater variety of minority perspectives. I know there is a variety, because I have personally been exposed to quite a range. You complain about the minority opinion being quashed, but on page 2, you quashed the minority opinion of Suffer, because he had an opinion that was different from your own. This rejection of nuance is the only thing that I would like to quash.
I honestly would have been even more comfortable with the folks using the phrase “I essentially felt as if people thought I was an N-word” to express discomfort, but to say that someone actually uttered it? If you ask me my opinion everytime I hear that one (even when it comes to incidents of police brutality, where some would claim the officer actually called them an n-word), I will have to say the same as Aretha Franklin did in a recent and very shady interview when asked to characterize a particular pop artist, “I think I’m gonna pass on that one” lol. Seriously, we get it. You feel very uncomfortable or in the extreme case, you were likely beaten or handled unnecessarily rough by authorities…I mean that is enough to get people to understand that something was wrong. The extra layer (and potential lie) is just unnecessary to get us to empathize or truly understand what is happening. It is essentially like using ad hominem attacks in an argument and that tends to lower the credibility of the one making the argument.
Also, do not underestimate how northerners and those from outside of the south can be racially biased. Me and one of my friends (who is white actually) had an interesting discussion about how racism manifests itself differently in different parts of the country. We came to a proposal that northern and mid-Atlantic states may have biases that develop more closely along socioeconomic lines. For example, there may be the automatic assumption that a URM is less fortunate and thus certain expectations are set for that person. And when you think about it, that is possible because there are actually many southern cities that have very sizeable if not large black middle-class/upper class populations such as Birmingham, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Memphis. This is not as common in large northern cities (to have many upscale portions of the metropolitan areas be mostly black or URM for that matter). At the same time, note how I allude to the fact that in these cities, even the upscale areas are essentially segregated. For example, riding with my lab colleague yesterday, we were in an upscale area of Dekalb that was basically all black, but as soon as you went under an overpass(hosting a rail line. The area was all white, but still upscale. You could literally draw a line. So in the south, the influence of the past is just very obvious. At one point (and perhaps still is for some), the bias was merely because of skin color.
@lefty163 Wow, this thread got heated up! Coming back to your question, Indians are one of the most integrated ‘minority’ communities on campus, and nearly all of them are social and super involved in a ton of important leadership positions.
This is one prominent example. I knew him personally, and there are others like him too.
http://www.vanderbilthustler.com/news/article_17e6de48-481f-11e5-befb-5f7388ad31de.html
If you like to meet new people and put yourself out there, you will have absolutely no problem fitting in and succeeding here socially.
@sophie1295 Well I don’t think anyone is denying that minorities can fit in with their own respective minority groups on campus. Looking at that link, the guy seems to have been exclusively part of clubs that had to do with his culture (with the exception of VSVS, which isn’t really a “club”). I think what derp125 is trying to say is that minorities cannot fit in with the “mainstream” Vanderbilt. It doesn’t seem like the guy in the link was in a fraternity, and I would hazard a guess that (most) of his friends were other Indians judging by his extracurriculars.
Ok, I knew him because he was the president of one the clubs I was in as a freshman, and I can tell you he wasn’t in a frat, but was respected throughout the community. ‘Mainstream’ doesn’t always mean white and Greek, especially in the changing racial diversity on campus. He was in the honor council, the student leadership board, ASB, VSVS, VUcept, Engineering World Health etc.
http://www.hercampus.com/school/vanderbilt/aditya-karhade-hes-more-involved-you
All these clubs are mainstream and have lots of diverse students. Yes, he was involved in so-called Indian clubs, but even the South Asian club has members from all cultures. I’m doing Diwali, a dance show organized by this club (SACE), and apart from 4 Asian people, my dance group of 25 people is full of whites, African Americans and hispanics. You can’t get more diverse than that.
Even simple things like a dance performance can help you befriend diverse people, and that’s how I met people from so many different backgrounds. Yes, self-segregation does happen and I won’t deny it, but if you don’t want to restrict yourself to one social group, there are plenty of opportunities to develop meaningful relationships with people from different races/countries.
I find the definition of mainstream problematic. There are so many popular and well respected students who are not white or in Greek life, but that doesn’t ostracize them or make them any less prominent on campus. Minorities can definitely fit in at Vandy, and I see living examples everyday.
Yes, but none of those clubs care about race. ASB, VSVS, VUcept, anyone can apply to those clubs and not be rejected because of their race. They’re all completely based on interest and merit. However, for frats, you can easily get rejected for your race (although nobody will ever admit to this).
And I dunno about your idea of mainstream Vandy, but I’m pretty sure that those clubs are not part of it. Yes, those clubs may be diverse, but those aren’t the clubs that the average Vandy student cares about. You never hear anyone talking about the next VUCA meeting. All everyone cares about is the next frat party and what they’re going to do this weekend. You’re not “cool” for being a part of Diwali, but you’re “cool” if you’re in a top tier frat/sorority.
I don’t want to enter into an argument (midterms can really get to you). But I need to make myself clearer.
I don’t know how it is possible to define an average Vanderbilt student when you have 6400+ undergrads from so many ethnicities and regions, who have different passions and interests.
Also, perhaps my definition of ‘cool’ differs from yours. Cool for me is a passionate and successful Vanderbilt student (Greek or non Greek) who cares about his/her community, not someone who sports certain ‘top tier’ Greek letters and doesn’t contribute to campus in any other way. Not all of us share the high school mentality/ definition of ‘cool kids’ at a top 15 university with so much more to offer in terms of academics and extra-curricular activities.
I agree that the “cool” kids should be the ones who are passionate and cares about his/her community. However, reality doesn’t always match up to what we think. I just don’t understand how anyone who goes to Vanderbilt can deny that Greek life is the mainstream of Vanderbilt. It’s just so incredibly obvious to even an outsider.
Now do I agree that the frat kids should be the cool kids? Not at all. I despise most frat kids. However, the majority of campus doesn’t hold that mindset.
If I’m being honest, I find some of these posts problematic in that they remind me of the sentiments of people like Elliott Rodger. I’m definitely not accusing anyone of having violent or suicidal tendencies. However, just like those “foreveralone” type communities construct some artificial, generalized, and despised vision of others (of all women, “normies” [normal men], or “chads” [socially active men]), there is this tendency to paint with broad brush strokes the “average vandy student” what “everyone cares about” and what they think is “cool”. This is just othering and dehumanizing people, which is a dangerous process. Not to mention, there have been some comments about male/female interaction (who white girls are willing to hook up with, the behavior of asian girls and an implied “loyalty to their race”) that speaks to a troubling sense of male entitlement.
The greek life scene is popular, and a lot of people participate. It is based on white culture, and can be difficult to integrate to as a minority. I completely understand, I am not a part of greek life, and I have felt not so integrated at times because of it. But, as @Sophie1295 says, Vanderbilt isn’t high school. You can have your own definition of cool, and act accordingly. You can never interact with the frats. If you despise them, why does it matter what they think is cool?
Well, some constructions, especially about things like Greeks come from experience or funny observations like the one I made. Many are very cool (especially sorority girls), but there are many concerning attributes of some that may be very off-putting to others not a part of the system. Like I noticed that many frat guys at my school when together, spoke in exactly the same voice, like this raspy, almost drunken sounding drawl (as if the tone was one that made them sound “cooler” or more “masculine”)…but it would disappear or diminish greatly when talking to parents or someone like that. It almost seemed like a forced attempt to conform to some weird standard and I don’t really see it as much among sorority women. Sure they may discuss things that are primarily relevant to Greek life or a more “vibrant” social life, but there didn’t appear to be this attempt to look, act, and sound the same. On the whole, they often seemed much more academically serious (but this is perhaps just a general difference between men and women in college but it was more eye-opening to kind of observe it even in Greek life).
Either way, my observations are strange and somewhat offensive and I don’t even know what to think about them (I don’t believe it is in my head though…there seems to be something but it may also depend on the frat. Like ATO at least puts on a fascade of intellectualism/progressiveness when it has the chance). It is kind of like how you want to avoid calling someone who fits the bill of a caricatured nerd (as in like those depicted in classic American movies like revenge of the nerds…not an intellectual person that discusses academically oriented subjects excitedly though by today’s standard at many colleges, these are considered the nerds)…you know…a nerd. I guess the idea is that it feels strange when you can almost always guess correctly that someone is part of Greeklife without them wearing it or explicitly saying it. To me, this seems more likely to be the case for men than women (as in, I am more likely to guess a guy is in frat than a girl a sorority). Interestingly, since Greeklife is quite diverse at my school…the voice thing seems to transcend ethnic origin.
Also, I guess people are concerned if the group dominates the social scene in any sense…to the point where it appears to create some weird social hierarchy that shouldn’t happen in college, especially at top tier ones. However, I doubt it is that bad even there.