So it’s really coming down to the wire on college decisions, and I’m really stressing over this decision. I know I may get some partial answers seeing as I’m posting this in the Vandy forum, but whatever.
Academically, I think I would be fine with going to any of them. I’m undecided on my major, but probably something liberal arts (history/politics/international relations of some sort possibly?).
Dartmouth- I’m really concerned that I’m being pulled towards Dartmouth because of Ivy prestige. I’m also concerned about its location and social life. Seeing as greek life is the end all be all of social life and relatively isolated, I feel I could get bored/depressed from lack of stimulation of a bustling social life or city nearby. But I feel like its alumni network and amazing undergrad focus could give me amazing opportunities that are hard to pass up. Plus, it’s once in a lifetime to be able to study at an elite school in such a crazy location, right?
Vanderbilt- my brother is a senior so I have visited a bunch. Beautiful campus, a lot to do in Nashville, just not sure how much of the southern vibe I would be okay with. I hate country music (although I know Nashville has all kinds of music). Although, I feel like there would be more kids I connect with- I don’t really enjoy being around extremely intellectual kids, and am a sports fan. I just think there would be more relatable kids. I don’t know if I could have as many unique opportunities that an Ivy could give me, though. Plus I don’t know if it would be as good for me for my majors.
Overall, I’m just worried that Dartmouth would get a bit stale/lonely, while Vandy is a familiar place that I know will be very lively. I could just be negative about Dartmouth because I know less about it though. It’s hard to turn down an Ivy, but I’ve heard Vandy is on the rise.
I’d love some thoughts on this!
You seem pretty late in the game here. Don’t you have to commit today?
@Wetzel : Ivy is just a designation (this myth that ALL Ivies differ in some major way from non-Ivy peers continues to perpetuate somehow and it is annoying to the point of stupid). Most (especially lower and middles) typically do not come with programs that other comparable elite privates do not have simply because they are not Ivies (if one elite lacks a program or opp. that another has, it always has to do with some mixture of traditional strengths of the school, demand for such a program, and of course…money!). It’s the tiering that is more representative. 15-20 or so have their similarities and 11-15 have lots similarities, and of course those in the top 10 have similarities but often that has to do with endowment size and differences in academic programs (especially at many top 5-10 schools).
I really doubt Vanderbilt or any of its non-Ivy peers needs to be an Ivy or even “on the rise” to be similar in offerings and caliber to Dartmouth at the undergraduate level (maybe to have more prestige among prospective students, sure…but measurements by them can often be questionable). If anything, it (and many other larger elite universities) offers more due to location and its larger size. Take the Ivy tag off and do a more honest comparison. Like a person who has the blessing between choosing between somewhere like Harvard versus Stanford or MIT is likely going to take differences in atmosphere and academics (as in how are the programs run, what faculty are there) more seriously and won’t keep defaulting back to the: “Well Harvard is the top Ivy and is ranked number 1”. It is a peer very different from the other two. You should view the Dartmouth versus Vanderbilt comparison that way.
Dartmouth puts a great deal of emphasis on its undergraduates compared to pretty much all other elite universities except maybe Princeton. The setting is rural, there’s a lot of outdoor activity, and the winter is harsher than at Vandy, while the summer is not as hot or humid.
Vandy is in Nashville, a cool city. Lots of music and other culture resides in Music City, USA.
Dartmouth has a big edge if you want to go into Finance, especially in NYC. If not, I don’t think either school has a notable edge in vocational placement.
Both have a big Greek presence. Vandy, since it’s urban, invariably has a more varied social scene than Dartmouth.
At this point if you have a gut feeling, go with that. Both are really good; take comfort in that.
@Wetzel as the parent of a Dartmouth student who has no interest at all in Greek life I assure you that Greek life at Dartmouth is not the be all and end all of social life. I don’t believe she has attended a single Greek party all year and her social life is not lacking.
You are of course the best judge of where you will be happy but if a main concern holding you back is the Greek system then remove that from the equation. Take a look at everything else about Dartmouth and decide if that will provide you the college experience you desire. My daughter is in small classes, has a personal relationship with her professors and feels supported in her endeavours. She is headed to Montréal in a few weeks for a day trip as part of one of her classes. Other classes have taken her on day trips to Massachusetts and Vermont. She has this past year travelled frequently off campus as part of her particular classes.
The Greek life is certainly present but Dartmouth offers so much more. As a Freshman you are not allowed the first six weeks of Fall term to attend any party were alcohol is served. You are not allowed to Rush until Sophomore year. There must be other activities yes? If not, then that is hundreds of students with a large amount of time on their hands with nothing to do and that would be not be conducive to a content student body.
Dartmouth may not be your college path but I wouldn’t want you to discount it based solely upon rumours or perceptions of their social scene.
@saffysmum : The OP’s opinion confuses me because, the social scene with respect to Greeklife is apparently not much different from Vanderbilt. Just Dartmouth is smaller so I guess it is theoretically more noticeable. Also, they proclaimed they were not interested in a particularly intellectual atmosphere. Dartmouth has the Greek reputation on top of being decently intellectual. I think the OP seems maybe more into a very “normal” social scene with “normal” conversations and the like. I never see the problem with wanting a decent deal of intellectualism on the campus of an elite school (especially if I am studying the humanities or social sciences where I would want to have convs. about those issues with others passionate about them) but it seems to be a trend now-a-days. We want to just attend classes, make grades, and have a normal good time (as in, save your bright or weird ideas for when we do HW together or something. The idea that one’s braininess is only useful in very limited practical contexts).
I understand the desire to avoid intellectual snobbery (Dartmouth isn’t particularly known for that. Brown apparently has such a reputation for some reason), but otherwise I don’t see what the big deal is. Seems like there is too much of this notion that intellectual=nerd which=uncool=unrelate-able (honestly, would not want to be somewhere where everyone was completely relate-able to me. Need lots of folks that think differently and care about different things). Too homogeneous I am actually very confused by the OP saying that Greek dominance at Dartmouth is a turnoff while also implying that it (or its students) is still too “intellectual” for them in comparison to Vanderbilt.
Also, the small classes thing…always depends on the major. There are maybe a handful of elite research universities that have reasonably sized science courses for example (especially at the intro. level). I don’t know if Dartmouth’s focus on undergraduates is too much different from peers when you speak of majors such as the ones that the OP is interested in. In many cases, it is the internship, scholarship, and research opportunities that make such programs stand apart from those at other schools, so the OP would want to basically see which school has a better suported IS, polisci, or history UG program. Like what level of monetary support is there for travel and research as allocated directly by the department? Are there any centers or research fellowships directly affiliated with the department, etc? Schools known to be academically excellent in something like political science are not typically known for the classroom experience but the robustness of EC and co-curricular programs affiliated with it. Also, schools more focused on(or in the case of many of Dartmouth’s peers, focusiing on saving them) the liberal arts (such as Dartmouth) are indeed more likely to yield opportunities (in and out of class) similar to the one your daughter is having, but they are also very likely to happen in smaller or medium sized depts at other schools.
I feel like this decision comes down to which atmosphere you prefer. Both schools have a pretty strong greek presence that dominates the social scene, so they’re not too different in that respect. Basically, do you prefer rural northeast, or urban south?
Really, you have though this out for yourself already, and we have no way of seeing all the different ideas, emotions, and plans you have in your head. So ultimately, the choice comes down to you.
The trick that I feel like works the best is to choose one school as heads, one as tails. Flip it in the air, and the one you are hoping it lands on while the coin is in midair is the one you really want to go to.