Vanderbilt vs Princeton, your help please...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
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<p>My daughter has narrowed her college choice to between Princeton and Vanderbilt. She is turning down MIT and multiple other prestigious universities because she feels that (following her many college visits) either Princeton or Vandy would be the best fit for her. </p>

<p>She plans on attending medical school and is very committed to this. She has a strong interest in international medicine and health policy. </p>

<p>Princeton seems to possibly have a slightly more prestigious reputation (at least on the East Coast). However, Vanderbilt seems to have the better premed preparatory track (This is based on anecdotal conversations with a good friend of mine who is a practicing surgeon and Princeton grad that told us that his liberal arts education was great but that he had to attend a summer semester at Northwestern in order to fill his premed requirements. He further reported that the Princeton graduation requirements made filling the medical prerequisites difficult.)</p>

<p>However, that being said, Princeton does have an interdepartmental certificate(essentially a minor) in Global Health and Health Policy. Though Vandy has an interdisciplinary major in Medicine, Health, and Society that is of great interest to my daughter.</p>

<p>Grade deflation at Princeton is also a consideration. There is some concern that this may put her at a disadvantage with respect to med school admissions, especially when compared to premed students from Flagship State U</p>

<p>Vandy has offered a full tuition, Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholarship. Princeton will not be providing any assistance. We have saved for her education and can fortunately can pay for her to go to either, but would prefer to spend hard-earned money on medical school.</p>

<p>In addition, athletics is also a consideration. She is a very successful athlete and has been recruited by multiple Division I universities. However, she has decided that for college academics and overall college experience are her primary priorities. If she decides to continue with athletics in college it will be secondary and more or less on her terms (not demanded by her accepting an athletic scholarship). She was given very good advice with respect to this by a UVA coach..."for college student athletes there are 3 considerations 1. athletics 2. academics 3.social experience. You can choose two." She has chosen the latter two (for now).</p>

<p>My daughter has asked for my input regarding her choice. I am asking for yours. Any constructive comments, inforamtion, or thoughtful advise that you would be kind enough to offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...</p>

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<p>I, too, am choosing between Vanderbilt and Princeton. I asked a similar question on the Princeton forum :). It’s “Is Princeton worth it?”. Several Princeton grads have replied to me, and you might find their comments useful.</p>

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<p>Fully 60% of this year’s Vanderbilt freshmen started with intentions of being pre-med. Obviously, Vanderbilt cannot allow this to stand or else many departments would starve for lack of students. They are weeded out starting with biology and chemistry to force them onto other paths. About 12% will eventually apply to medical schools. It is the competitors who succeed in remaining on the pre-med path. To your daughter’s advantage, she is an accomplished athlete. She will need that same competitive drive to help her succeed as a pre-med, so she should do well at Vanderbilt. The Vanderbilt University School of Medicine and the Medical Center are right there on the campus with lots of research, shadowing, and volunteer opportunities all around. Princeton is generally more prestigious, but can’t come close to matching Vandy’s advantages for a pre-med education. Throw in the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship and the decision should tilt heavily toward Vanderbilt.</p>

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<p>I can assure you that Princeton students are at no disadvantage whatsoever in the medical school admissions process–to the contrary, they do extraordinarily well. It is, by leaps and bounds, more prestigious than Vanderbilt and almost any other university, and the beauty of Princeton is the incredible focus on undergraduate education. The idea that Princeton “can’t conme close to matching Vandy’s advantage for a pre-med education:” is completely untrue, and in all honesty, Vandy., or any other university for that matter, cannot come close to Princeton in almost every academic discipline and undergraduate focus.</p>

<p>Relatively few students chose Vanderbilt over Princeton (relatively few students chose any other college over Princeton!)</p>

<p><a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.;

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<p>Medman, according to your stats, 1 in every 3 or 4 students actually do choose Vanderbilt over Princeton. And out in the real world away from college confidential, many people do consider the two schools to be fairly similar in terms of prestige. Most importantly, you’re not taking into account that the OP’s daughter is a Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholar, an extremely prestigious designation. Seems like a smart move to seriously consider attending tuition free before going to med school. Might also look good to med schools that she was the best of the best at Vanderbilt.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your comments and honesty. It has been very helpful.</p>

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<p>I disagree–most people in the real world (non-academia, non-CC, etc.) think “smart” when they think of Princeton; most people in the real world think “finishing school” when they think of Vanderbilt.</p>

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<p>As someone from the west coast, I hadn’t heard of Vandy until CC. I didn’t realize it was prestigious until a couple months ago. Princeton is much more prestigious nationally and internationally. </p>

<p>However, that is pretty much irrelevant. I would go with Vandy because of the scholarship. If you as parents can fund her med school/grad school, she will be off to an excellent start. She will be able to buy a house sooner, live more nicely, save more, and maybe even have money to fund HER kids’ educations. Vandy is by no means a slouch of a school and if she continues her academics at the rate she is, she will have a good chance at top med schools.</p>

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<p>I think the only valid consideration here is money. I can’t imagine turning down Princeton for any other reason.</p>

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<p>Yeah… But money is a very good reason.</p>

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<p>If costs of attendance were remotely comparable, I would pick Princeton, but I think it is extraordinarily difficult to justify spending $200,000 for marginally better prestige (Princeton is more prestigious than Vanderbilt, no questions asked, but we’re also not comparing Princeton to, for example, a state flagship university) when you’re talking about spending an additional $200-$250k on a medical school education. If your daughter was thinking about going into finance or something along those lines, it might be a different story, but for a pre-med curriculum, things are a bit different. I’ve posted this on a few other threads, but as a Cornelius Vanderbilt scholar, I can tell you that almost all of us turned down one or more top-level schools (Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and everything in between) to come to Vanderbilt and have a great four years at an even better price. You really can’t go wrong in this decision if you really can afford Princeton, but when it seems like Vanderbilt is such a good fit for your daughter (i.e. not something that is being forced on her because of finances) I think the sheer cost of Princeton relative to Vanderbilt, on top of the reality of medical school tuition in a few years, makes Vanderbilt a great choice. I love it here, and it sounds like your daughter would too!</p>

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<p>One more thing – Vanderbilt has an Early Decision Medical Program with the VU School of Medicine (one of the top ranked in the country) in which you apply your sophomore year of college after taking some of the pre-med courses. If accepted, you do not need to take the MCAT, are guaranteed admission to the medical school, and can spend the rest of your time in college exploring other interests and making the most of your experience. Not sure if this is something of interest to your daughter, and it is fairly competitive, but it is something to consider.</p>

<p>Also: On that note, Princeton does not have a medical school. Although she can do research with biological sciences faculty, there is much to be said about being nearby a great medical school/hospital right on campus; students regularly shadow doctors here, and the pre-med association does a great job setting those kinds of relationships up. This same association also does a number of events featuring speakers from the medical school (as one example, the director of the Vanderbilt Burn Center held a fascinating lecture last year). These kinds of resources are really useful, in my opinion, and something to consider given that you’re focused on Princeton (unlike say, Harvard or Yale, which both have medical schools as well).</p>

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<p>Just a thought - there’s also a lot of grade deflation here at Vanderbilt. Big problem for lots of students, especially in the beginning “weed out” pre-med courses that everyone ends up taking. </p>

<p>I would say nearly all the students here (if not all of them) would agree that Princeton is more prestigious.</p>

<p>HOWEVER - if she has the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship that will cover everything, I would HIGHLY recommend going to Vanderbilt. It’s a really amazing school, highly ranked and on the rise, and it has a great vibe - she’d definitely enjoy her undergraduate experience here, and no medical school is going to look down on a Vanderbilt degree. It will also provide her with any athletic opportunities that she want. Plus the weather here is better! :slight_smile: It’s going to be a good decision to get through her undergraduate years without paying much at all, and saving more for medical school. I think that’s something everyone will agree with. </p>

<p>Keep in mind, especially if she’s going to medical school after this, it’s not really going to matter how highly ranked her undergraduate university was, so the difference between Princeton and Vanderbilt is negligible, in my opinion. However, it’s also important to realize how many students go into college intending to be pre-med and dropping that idea fairly quickly (at least this is the case at Vanderbilt, and I have heard it is the case elsewhere as well) - I don’t have statistics for this but have heard it in speeches given to our student body… like half of the freshman come here as intended pre-med students. And probably half of them give up that idea by the time second or third semester rolls around. Both Princeton and Vanderbilt will offer numerous other disciplines for your daughter to look into if she changes her mind about the pre-med or Medicine, Health, and Society (I know tons of MHS majors) degree, and both will be highly ranked enough to get her into whatever graduate school or job that she’s looking for.</p>

<p>tl;dr: Go to Vanderbilt with that full tuition scholarship and enjoy it!</p>

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<p>There really is no contest if you have the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship unless you have all the money in the bank you need for med school and undergrad school and the proper savings for all your children. </p>

<p>I certainly have heard of Princeton’s deflation in grades, including from a current Princeton student but I don’t think that matters a whit. Graduate schools know how Princeton operates and they know how to factor in such differences quite fairly. I am sure your daughter can do the work as well as anyone who is on fire to get to med school so don’t let grade deflation play any part. Vandy’s premed classes are also difficult and challenging.
No one would argue that Vanderbilt is more prestigious than Princeton but take a realistic look at the stats of the students attending Vanderbilt. There is really little difference in the talent of the peers in each college although I think Princeton is a deeply well funded college with a great alum network. </p>

<p>Vanderbilt also can afford to be need blind and to pay full estimated cost of attendance for anyone who has need aid with no loans. Vanderbilt’s prestige factor in med school applications is only getting stronger and stronger and it was already excellent. Why? Because the student body at Vanderbilt has grown by leaps and bounds in terms of high stats, diversity and selectivity in only the last six years.</p>

<p>Vanderbilt’s medical school is outstanding and part of the Vanderbilt community in so many ways that can be advantageous. My Duke son’s best friend chose Vandy med over a couple slightly more highly ranked med schools because of its excellent community and support of its medical students and he is incredibly happy there.</p>

<p>CV scholars also get a great deal of assists in summer internships, particularly when they use their 5000 dollar summer study/travel/service or research stipend.<br>
CV Scholars are automatically also College Scholars. Our son is a College Scholar and the small seminars are quite wonderful. Everyone in them is a College Scholar for starters. Wonderful teachers lead these topical seminars. You get the beauty of a little taste of a true liberal arts education in these seminars plus if you complete the required number of them with decent grades (grading has been quite fair and the discussions very rewarding), you will also graduate from Vanderbilt with an Honors Diploma. Not all science and premeds choose to use all the seminars and to go this pathway but our son loves the seminars and has finished all of them by spring of his junior year. The students in the seminars are from all four years thus he has had many star students who were older than he is to model on and to inspire him. All Vandy students were honors students and could win merit money so even if your student ditches the seminars because of a great interest in another pathway, it doesn’t matter. </p>

<p>All Vandy students can earn Departmental Honors if for instance the CV scholar prefers to do research and independent studies in biology or biochem or anything else. You don’t have to do seminars if you have other departments taking up your attention
You have won the lottery if you are free of tuition. Some years we have spent more than thousand less than estimates online for room and board depending on circumstances. Our son’s semester abroad was cheaper in this respect and Vandy pays tuition no matter where you are even if you are abroad. He is about to enjoy the use of his stipend which is wonderful for his resume. The Office of Honor Scholarships assists and approves of student proposals. You can prob find old blogs and places where CV Scholars discuss what they have done with their underwritten summers. It is very difficult to use your summers wisely in this economy and being a CV Scholar has its advantages for applications.
Vanderbilt puts out juried science and research journals which you can skim online for a frame of reference re the types of research going on in the VAnderbilt med school and hospitals and undergrad labs.
This student had to choose between paying full price to Yale or taking his CV Scholar offer and you might enjoy reading his blog on the NYTimes The Choice pages from a season or two ago.
[Vanderbilt</a> or Yale? - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/envelope-greshko-4/]Vanderbilt”>Vanderbilt or Yale? - The New York Times)
These sort of choices are indeed good problems to have. I know few people who would turn down a Free Tuition education at a top ten institution. A few years ago we had the same debate on CC with a sweetheart of a male student from California and his decision was also too much money to spend to accept Yale vs a CV Scholarship. He finished a masters in engineering in five years flat at Vanderbilt and last we heard from Evil Robot (his screen name here) he was working for Google and very very happy with his decision to not clean out his parents savings and go to the Ivy that admitted him. </p>

<p>One of my best friend’s daughter got into Harvard and Wash U and everywhere else she applied, won three full rides and the CV Scholarship at Vandy. She chose a full ride at a tip tier liberal arts college and last I heard from her mother, they had spent a total of 36 dollars on her first year education. She is busy planning her fully stipended supper experiences and I can assure you she will likely end up at an Ivy med school with money in the bank to pay that tuition. </p>

<p>There is another poster here whose daughter is now at Yale med school. I would suggest that you search the screen name “curmudgeon” to see how his daughter handled this moment in her senior year of high school.</p>

<p>She also got in everywhere and in the end took a full ride at a very good liberal arts college and now has the money to devote to Yale Med School. She had invites into several fine med schools but how lovely that she ended up at Yale after all.</p>

<p>Take the long view and celebrate your good fortune. </p>

<p>if you pick Vandy…Go Dores! It is a great college town…a truly fun college city.</p>

<p>good luck. If you can afford Princeton, most people would take it. But I would embrace winning that full tuition and honors status and never look back.</p>

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<p>I love you Faline2. Well said.</p>

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<p>As a Vandy grad and also a med school grad, I will say this-- money matters. A lot.</p>

<p>I went to Vandy over several Ivy’s myself because I got a Dean’s Select Scholarship (75% instead of 100%).</p>

<p>I was 90% sure I was going to med school, and 100% sure I was going to grad school of some type.</p>

<p>Knowing this, taking on 100K of debt for a BA (in the 90s) and then going on to grad school seemed asinine.</p>

<p>Then again, maybe Princeton or Harvard would have opened me to a whole different career, who knows.</p>

<p>The Ivy’s are amazing for working on Wall St or gaining a huge leg up in academia. Their alumni network and name recognition are what you are buying, and well worth it for so many career choices.</p>

<p>But spending 200K for a Princeton BA just to go to med school? Not worth it at all.</p>

<p>The dilemma, of course, is that few premeds actually end up in med school. I was one who did, and am very glad I made the choice I did not to take out any more unnecessary loans in the end.</p>

<p>You would think that it wouldn’t matter if you are an MD, but I have several doctor friends still paying off unwise student loans in their 40s and beyond.</p>

<p>For anything but premed, Princeton is the way to go.</p>

<p>For premed, I always say go to the cheapest, best undergrad option possible.</p>

<p>You can always go to Harvard for med school, or better yet, go there for internship/residency and let them pay you to have their name on your CV.</p>

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<p>Razzyreb, in 05 we sent our eldest son to Duke and payed full freight, to our deep detriment…ie some on second mortgage…and in his fourth fall there the economy tanked and housing valuations bottomed. We actually couldn’t afford for second son to go to the wonderful places he favored where he was admitted (Swarthmore, Haverford, Rice) but where he either didn’t win merit money or they don’t offer merit money at all. Second son had a couple of merit finalist opportunities, one of which would have also cost us Zero, but he fell in love with the vibrancy that is Vanderbilt and with its very good town gown vibe. Granted, he is from a VA city that is much less exciting than Nashville culturally. And we had been at Vandy for grad schools and know a great deal about the quality of life in Nashville. Duke son was blown away by the Commons and Nashville is so much more fun than Durham for a college town. When Duke grad son applied to Vandy, there were 11,000 applicants compared to the 28,300 applicants this year. The odds of winning the coveted merit offers are currently rare indeed. For middle or upper middle class people who end up paying full freight…admissions to the Ivies are not viable financially if you can’t really afford the 55 grand a year. Thus the hordes of applicants at Vanderbilt and its peers where merit money is a possibility.<br>
Please keep in mind that there are dire consequences if you do not realize that graduate schools of medicine and law and business often require parental contributions until the age of 28 for students. They will and do evaluate the family ability to contribute. Do not think that your daughter will necessarily be viewed as solo financially…not true in many many places. I was frankly very uninformed on this when we chose Duke for eldest son. And failed to factor in graduate school loans in an economy with low paying and scarce post BS jobs.
I was very surprised/naive re the costs at UVA professional grad schools of law and business…had no idea they were as expensive as their peer private colleges even for instate residents…this was never spelled out in high school and we failed to really face the reality early on.
ie grad school at Vandy cost us one 10 thousand dollar low interest loan paid off in one decade. This is so far from reality now for those who take on expensive graduate schools it will make your head spin. Truly take a look at what you might be paying monthly with your daughter for med school and if she wins some merit discounts in med school…great! but she will likely be assuming loans of some size. The economy is sobering indeed for their generation. jobs were plentiful in our era.</p>

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<p>I know both schools very well, and if I were you I would simply tell my daughter to go to Vandy. It would be extremely selfish and foolish for her to choose Princeton over Vandy in this situation. If the Princeton diploma is all that your daughter wants, then withdraw your savings. But for all other reasons, please help her to choose Vandy. It is a great school and she will love it.</p>

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<p>Hard to believe that someone would never have “heard of Vanderbilt”. I suppose you never heard of Brown, Dartmouth, or Williams or swarthmore etc either, since you are “from the West Coast”. Amazing, but probably true.</p>

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<p>You seem to be patronizing Vanderbilt, and I wonder why you have that need. I am an MD who turned Yale down in favor of a free education at a wonderful small LAC where I was able to major in Physics, and decide late to enter med. school. I again got into Yale, but chose a cheaper med. school. Finally, I did all of my specialty training at Harvard, which defined my career from there on. Since that time, no one has ever given a hoot about where I went to college. They associate me with Harvard, which again counts only in opening some doors, and from there on every doctor earns his/her credibility every day from scratch with patients and co-workers!!! My point is that many schools will give you an equal education, and it is shallow and misguided to imagine that there is some magic about Princeton which is missing at Vanderbilt. I know of Vanderbilt due to collaborations with some medical faculty there, and it universally known that Vanderbilt is truly one of the foremost medical powers in the USA…hence the world. I am also an uncle of a recent Vanderbilt grad. Another fact you should know…the intellectual caliber of current Vanderbilt students is the equal of those at Princeton by many measures. Check out the facts. I agree that Princeton has historically enjoyed a most prestigious rank, but the world changes. A Lexus comes along which may equal or surpass a Mercedes…even if it does not quite get its due respect all the time. And please…stop with the “finishing school” swipe. It is risible. Makes you look insecure.</p>