Is Vanderbilt like an Ivy League college both academically and socially? Or perhaps even better?
Work Hard, Play Hard. Harvard is the Vanderbilt of the North.
Which Ivies and which academic departments? They all vary. It is like some of them socially (A happy version of Cornell or something like Dartmouth which has a large Greek and party scene…both places without extremely intellectual/cerebral vibes but more so known for work hard play hard. The others are known for their level of intellectualism), but some of the Ivies are naturally much more intensive academically from the course materials I’ve seen in certain areas. These of course mainly being Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, and Yale (feel free to throw in several non-Ivies as well). However, some Ivies are pretty much like any other top 25 schools overall and their strengths are in certain departments at the undergrad. level. They don’t stand out as a group anymore. I wish people understood that more. Ivy does not = HYP. being in the Ivy League results in an extra boost in terms of lay prestige (like among HS counselors) but anyone serious (like an academic or professional) would know to pretty much regard any top 25 private (especially Vanderbilt-which ranks with Brown and above Cornell I think) below say 10 as basically the same in overall UG caliber to say, Cornell and Brown. However, my tiering is random and things get messier when you consider things like this: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-50-schools-that-produce-science-phds/ . The impact of STEM and the orientation of students pursuing it is likely to effect the social environment a lot. A place making this list is likely to be a bit nerdier socially, but many of the places not making it known exclusively for say, pre-med (as in they have like well over 300 apply each year) like WashU or Emory will be slightly nerdy but will have this air of seriousness about academics that isn’t necessarily intellectual. Greek life % is another metric that can be used to gauge the social scene (Dartmouth has a high % but also makes the list. Must have an interesting atmosphere. Perhaps independents are a bit different?).
Well which Ivy League school?
Vandy is a great school, it is especially respected down South, and it’s ranked #16 in US News (one below Cornell, tied with Brown). That said, in most of the US it probably won’t yield quite the same cachet as an actual Ivy.
Academically, where liberal arts education is concerned, at the undergraduate level, Vanderbilt is as good as any undergraduate institution in the nation, including the Ivy League. This is not true just of Vanderbilt, but of dozens of colleges and universities across the nation.
Academically similar but VU is much better socially.
@bud123 : Again, too vague. Some would argue that the academic intensity of some of the Ivies makes it impossible for them to have the same social environment as say, Vandy, Duke, GT, or ND. Though I would say Brown and Dartmouth are similar to those. The others are much more cerebral which is not necessarily “worse” socially. In fact, students and faculty at places like Duke (and now several others) since like the early 2000’s have always expressed a desire for the social environment to become more cerebral as opposed to work hard play hard, so not even the school who was the top private that initially sold this concept to attract students believes it is better at this point (In fact, Duke had trouble yielding many people in its AB Scholars program back then due to the fact that the students found it too “work hard play hard”…now that is less of an issue with college being so expensive so students better follow the money but the point is, a lot of top students, especially attending the top 10 schools, do not overly value or even initially desire that).
There are just notably more cerebral top schools than there are pure “work hard play hard” ones anymore. One can argue that even Duke and Stanford have now fallen out of the latter category. VU, ND, and GT may be regarded as funner and more laid back than many places, but this isn’t necessarily preferred by most high caliber students. I believe the “intellectual” reputations of the other schools would be gone by now otherwise and there would be so many administrative plans of other schools that are not considered in that bunch to become more like the schools I allude to. Part of it has to also be driven by student demand. Vanderbilt may have yielded more students that reject that type of environment at the other schools, but there is likely a solid chunk that is more like those Duke students/faculty in 2001/2002. The current phase does make it look a lot like Duke back then though except that Duke students were just much tougher and more critical about that sort of environment (Even when Duke was already solid top 10- they would still complain about the academics. They still complain to this day. Stanford folks are very similar in this regard. They will openly call out academic weaknesses in school publications). Either way, I think you’re comparing apples and oranges when you say “social environment is better”
A few factors that bode well for Vandy’s future when it comes to “reputation”.
- A 65% super-majority of students hail from outside the southeast. The five most represented states outside VU’s home base are IL, NY, TX, CA, and FL. Not exactly southern strongholds. So the “southern school” stereotype will continue to die off as Vandy is now a national university. Interestingly top U’s in the northeast or west are not labeled as northern or western schools despite having a large percentage of students from those regions.
- Vanderbilt’s top five schools with crossover applications are Duke, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Princeton. So it appears the top high school students are well aware of VU and they are grouping these fine universities together when they sit down and send off their applications. This is a very good sign for the future.
- Happy students make good students and Vandy has lots of them. These happy students go to their hometowns (65% are outside the southeast) and spread the word that Vanderbilt is a wonderful university and academic community.
- Vanderbilt has strong administrative leadership that is well respected by students, faculty, higher education, and government.
- The endowment is growing. You gotta have the $$$.
- Research productivity is increasing. Valued by international ranking methodology.
- Marketing. You have let the world know what you have to offer. The best marketers are their students.
- Everywhere else can claim this and even flat out claim that percentage are outside of the "south" (including southwest).
- Many other places claim this, but it could be bad because students could just be shooting for any top school possible. It matters much more so who the admits are. Like, did those schools take all of your top scoring applicants or not. Considering that their ranges are the same or a tad lower, and their yields are higher, that is unlikely.
3.Most top 25-30 schools have "happy" students, they are just more critical of the school. It is part of why these schools keep getting better academically. Also, given how all of these schools spend money on amenities and facilities, no wonder students are so "happy" at most of them (Vandy students may rate themselves happier because it is more of a "party" atmosphere than some other schools I suppose and if the students there wanted that, then of course). I believe that most students at these places are similar to the ones you describe, and some have more apps than Vandy without all of the spamming by the admissions department. Many also still have a higher alumni giving rate as well.
- Don't go there. Some faculty there seem upset or concerned (and this happens from time to time, but it is over a very important issue that is responsible for a lot of the growth that has been enjoyed admissions wise)
- Like every other school's is growing (with some places like Duke, Emory, and Rice at a faster rate).
- Every other's is growing. For example, this may correlate less with UG prestige and more so with power house faculty. In USNews global rankings, it is tied with Rice which is much smaller and about the same (like 1-2 spots lower) as Emory. The difference between it and the other two is mainly that the other two seem to have caught up because they have more "powerhouse faculty" departments as of now so they have more departments (according to USNews global grad. rankings) that are in the 20s-30s. By powerhouse, I mean depts that have several faculty that essentially run the show (they run or have top leadership roles for either national organizations or consortiums). For example, RIce's chemistry dept. managed to recently pull K.C. Nicolau (he's an insane natural product chemist) from Scripps Research. Emory's has Liotta (Emtriva and many other high/highest selling cancer/HIV drugs), Davies (runs a whole consortium), Lynn (discovered key structural attributes of protein involved in diseases such as alzheimers) and Hill (insane inorganic chemist) so these are examples of "powerhouse departments" at both. I think when these other Magnolia League's endowments shot up, they had lots of initial investment in buying insane faculty in the sciences which is what "noobs" should do. Vandy is not a "noob" though (there have been a couple of nobel winners in the 1900s) so should continue (or begin again) doing it. As far as STEM goes, the school of medicine there is of course really good at doing it, but I would say that as far as A and S is concerned, places like Rice have caught up or have been able to recruit more high impact faculty lately (like the past 10-20 years and the pattern continues). So that will need work.
7.You already said this, be honest and say that communications and the admissions committee have a role to play. This is also how Chicago suddenly boosted its apps.
I would work on UG academics and recruiting more top faculty into A and S and then the rest will fall in place. Those other attributes are not unique enough to rest upon, though marketing has gotten it to this point.
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Vanderbilt does not share the same reputation as any of the Ivys.
Among who? Graduating seniors of HS? I think many of us were awfully naive then. Vanderbilt, like many top 25’s (and like several top 20-25 privates), among those who matter, currently has a reputation similar to lower or “middle” (Dartmouth?) Ivies. And depending on the program, adults (and even rankings), especially faculty and academics of various sorts will rate several of their programs (mainly grad. and professional level) above those Ivies that share said programs. What you say just isn’t true among those who actually kind of know how to judge quality and don’t rate things based on popularity (many HS seniors are certainly guilty of this), lay prestige (and this), and “feeling” (some of these people have even taught at several of these places so can comment on differences) to the point where it clouds judgements on quality you…in this CURRENT day and age (as opposed to 10,20,50, or 100 years ago). And the undergraduate program is clearly similar enough.
In terms of overall undergrad academic reputation among private schools, no, Vanderbilt does not rank with the Ivies… but Vandy is close. I have the Dores in an academic peer group with Wash U, Notre Dame, Rice, Georgetown, and Emory. Maybe CMU is in that group too.
(Georgetown and Emory’s test scores are not quite as high as the rest in that group, but the academics at those two schools are quite excellent).
That’s the rep – the truth is, it’s really hard to know for certain exactly how good the teaching is at each school because we can only attend so many schools, most of us only one. Two, if we go to grad school or for a PhD.
I’ll presume that Vandy, like the other elite schools (and many that are not considered “elite”…), offers quality teaching in a collaborative, nurturing environment.
I think that’s the lay or HS senior “rep”…because in terms academics, WashU is above most of the others (especially in STEM- though Rice is pretty close I think, and of course CMU is excellent but it doesn’t get the respect among applicants that I think it deserves). You should probably add Cornell and Brown though Cornell is completely different (much larger, huge and great engineering scene) from Vanderbilt. There isn’t much evidence that many regard either as particularly better than a place like Vandy. Students may somewhat prefer them but that is likely because of an Ivy bump of sorts (as in, "it’s an Ivy, and its the one or 2 I got into and therefore I should go). GeorgeTown is also regarded as quite good, though less in the sciences. Either way, I don’t think many regard Brown (just using as a case since it is more similar than Cornell) as above those in academic quality. They may like it better (loose curriculum/laid back), but it isn’t better. Also, “collaborative”…hmmm. Emory and WashU actually known to be quite competitive (not as laid back as the others, maybe because of D-3 sports?). They may be more collaborative than some Ivies, but both have tons and tons of pre-meds (more than Notre Dame which straight up has a “pre-professional studies” major) and also large UG business schools. I would say that they feel nothing like some very top Ivies in terms of students being competitive, but I would put them near JHU more so than the others. There is a lot of collaboration but their is no doubt a solid amount of competition that make them feel more intense than if it were only for the course
work itself (though I would say that WashU is pretty consistently tough when you consider STEM).
I guess I would maybe say Vandy is some mixture between Brown and Cornell if I were to compare it to any Ivy. It has somewhat laid back students (like Brown), has a relatively challenging academic curriculum (like both-but maybe more like Cornell because of the grading), but does not have the intellectual vibe of Brown and is thus a little more like Cornell except of course a much less “gloomy” version of it. Actually better yet, it is a bigger version of Dartmouth. The social and academic environments seem very similar to Dartmouth I guess, but that says nothing about reputation.
Ranked 182 globally
Why does this matter?
@ClarinetDad16: Which would make it comparable to Dartmouth (136), Rice (129), Emory (156), and Georgetown (200) and above Notre Dame (237). So, yes, I guess okay in comparison to one Ivy…according to QS…which I don’t think cares much for the UG entity. Also, NRC shows it performing really well in several categories, ahead of many Ivies.
14 Johns Hopkins
25 Duke
34 Northwestern
65 Carnegie Mellon
99 Washington University
129 Rice
131 USC
156 Emory
182 Vanderbilt
200 Georgetown
@ClarinetDad16 : Yes, I saw them. Are you highlighting the non-Ivies (and SMUof C)? Of course there are many doing better than Vanderbilt, but ones like Dartmouth are actually only doing marginally better is the point. Also, sometimes I worry about those sorts of rankings because many seem too volatile. I don’t know if QS is one of them (I think it is), but many world rankings, outside of the top 50 or so, are very volatile. Also, that list seems to suggest: “The stronger your grad programs in STEM, specifically engineering and medicine, the better the performance”. Research reputation clearly plays a role as well, which means that the list confirms some of my hunches about a school needing to aggressively recruit faculty (especially in STEM) to do well in research/impact rankings or in general. It also reflects what I thought about “who” has been more aggressive lately and who has not. Note that Rice, CMU, and Emory joined AAU respectively in 1985, 1982 (this one has the fortune of its amazing STEM focus), and 1995. I’m surprised USC (1962) or Vandy (1950) isn’t doing better though. Georgetown and ND are not even in the AAU so not bad I guess. I would still like to see if it is volatile. This year could be an abberation. If it has been consistently somewhat like this (for those under 50) for the past 5 years or even the previous year, then okay…guess. Vandy seems stable for this cycle and the year before, Rice is stable (was 136 in 2013), Emory wasn’t particularly stable (141 in 2013), WashU was 86 in 2013, USC was stable at 125 (I guess that is considered stable?). I guess it is some type of yearly “performance” ranking?