<p>philosophizer, I just read your last post. Have you ever been on the Vanderbilt campus?</p>
<p>The group of female Malaysian engineering students is an unusual situation, and does not reflect the normal Asian experience on the campus. </p>
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<p>Failed experiment? What do you base that assessment on? Failed in what manner? Are you employed by the admissions office? You seem awfully sure of the reasons the Malaysian government has arranged to pay for engineering educations for a group of its female Muslim students.</p>
<p>philosophizer, my son’s girlfriend is an Asian immigrant, neither engineering nor Malaysian. One of his roommates is an Asian international, also not Malaysian. I could go on, but I’m not going to bother because I don’t think you are very familiar with Vanderbilt, and I don’t see the point.</p>
<p>OK, one more point. Two of the freshman I know are Asian immigrants from my town, neither of them are Malaysian. They attend Vanderbilt because after visiting they came to the conclusion that the “diversity” was sufficient for them. My town is a college town, and there are people from everywhere. The students here form a very multicultural group, and that is what these kids are accustomed to. At last report (last week) they are both happy at Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>“I still would not recommend binding early decision if money is a significant factor”</p>
<p>If you’re asking for financial aid, it is NOT binding. You are free to turn down their FA offer without consequence if the FA offered is not enough to allow attendance, and then apply RD elsewhere. But you do give up the ability to compare FA offers.</p>
<p>philosophizer,
Thanks for expanding your comments. Let me try to take them one at a time. </p>
<p>ND is the premier destination for top Catholic students around the USA. Non-Catholics are welcome there and I think your description is a bit harsh, but I guess that is how you see it. I would concur that the Asian population (7%) is smallish there, probably due to the lower numbers of Catholics who are Asian. The Black (4%) population is surprisingly low, but the Hispanic population (9%), among Top 20 schools, lags only Stanford (12%), MIT (12%), and Rice (12%). </p>
<p>As for Vanderbilt, they have been dealing with such expressions about diversity for a long time, but I think that old stereotype is mostly outdated. You’re probably right about a low Asian population (7%) as this percentage, like at Notre Dame, is WELL behind other Top 20 schools. Low Asian populations in the South could be part of the reason as well as the strong Asian interest in national/international brands like the Ivies. Frankly, if I was an Asian student with high college aspirations, I might see this as an opportunity as Vanderbilt would probably like to attract more. But for other groups, Vanderbilt compares well, eg, Vandy attracts a large percentage of black students (9%) and is exceeded in the Top 20 by only Stanford (10%), Wash U (10%) and Emory (10%). </p>
<p>As for the socio-economic statement, I think you’re on shaky ground here (esp with ND as 57% of students receive some financial aid). I say this because similar charges could probably be lobbed at every school in the Top 20. All are need-blind in their admission and nearly all meet 100% of need, but the reality is that a lot of economically well-off families are attracted to these colleges and enroll their kids there in large numbers. If you actually interact with the enrollments at Top 20 colleges, you’ll find that there truly is not great economic diversity at any of them. </p>
<p>As for the Jewish statements, I’ve heard/read just the opposite about Vanderbilt. Over the last decade, I’ve consistently heard/read mostly positive reports about the effort that the school has made in attracting Jewish students and making them an important and welcomed demographic of the school. Maybe I’m wrong and I would defer to others with more direct experience with Vanderbilt (and ND) who can comment on this and your other statements.</p>
<p>ND and Vandy are two of the least diversified schools in the US.</p>
<p>It’s shocking that people even try to argue that those schools are diversified.</p>
<p>The schools are full of students from wealthy families, primarily white.</p>
<p>They may be good schools but to argue about the diversity of the schools is preposterous.</p>
<p>“If you actually interact with the enrollments at Top 20 colleges, you’ll find that there truly is not great economic diversity at any of them.”</p>
<p>Depends on what you consider top 20. Berkeley and UCLA are economically diversified. Private schools… well MIT isn’t bad for a private school…CalTech might be ok. …Smith is close to diversified economically… of course it doesn’t have any men. ) But most of the top 20 schools are not economically diversified. True.</p>
<p>And the Jewish population at these schools…:)</p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t know how much “diversity” ends up making that much difference. A person can be at a “diversified” campus, but if his/her major is in an area which attracts mostly males, or mostly females, or mostly whites, or mostly Asians, or mostly African-Americans, then “diversity” takes a nose dive rather quickly.</p>
<p>Plus, on virtually every US campus, students still do not socialize that much between the races. Even our more “diversified” campuses are segregated when it comes to many social events, clubs, and personal activities.</p>
<p>I’m no expert on this aspect of Vanderbilt culture, but the sons of two families that are good friends of ours have visited this year, both specifically looking at the question of “fit” with regard to being Jewish, and both came back with good reports on that score. (One did not feel the school was a good fit for other reasons–definitely no surprise there.)</p>
<p>Perhaps your sources are not completely up to date, dstark? Or maybe they are; as I said, I can’t speak from personal experience on this.</p>
<p>The whole issue of diversity leaves me scratching my head sometimes. The poster philosophizer, above, criticizes Vanderbilt for counting its couple of dozen Malaysian (Muslim) female engineering students in its diversity numbers–the implication is that because these students don’t mix it up socially they don’t add to diversity.</p>
<p>How respectful of diversity is it to expect religious Muslim women to dress like the average American college student and head for the keggers on the weekend?</p>
<p>The Jewish enrollment at Vanderbilt is actually very good. I like to use Hillel.org.</p>
<p>I don’t think Notre Dame even registers at Hillel.org. There is a Jewish student Association at ND. Notre Dame is a Catholic school and that’s ok. :)</p>
<p>Haha I love all the discussion about diversity…but I really do not care as I am looking at two of the least diversified schools in the top 25. Any more info about why ND or Vandy is better for a partying, spanish and history double major would be appreciated.</p>
<p>philosophizer, most people do not restrict discussions of campus diversity to <em>international</em> students. The data that people use to discuss diversity of student bodies does not mix up Asian-American, Asian-born permanent residents, and students with international status.</p>
<p>Now that I know you are referring to <em>international</em> students, we are in agreement. Vanderbilt does not have a large contingent of international students. No one claims otherwise.</p>
<p>I couldn’t say whether or not that is important to most undergraduates. I happen to think the presence of international students is a big positive for colleges, and I would be happy to see Vanderbilt improve its international numbers.</p>
<p>I don’t think I’ve taken “unsolicited cheapshots” at Vandy. Where did I do that? Are you confusing me with someone else?</p>
<p>And my point about areas in this country that don’t know much about Vandy is based on the fact that the OP will be likely seeking employment in the US - not abroad. Therefore, it makes no difference what those who live in other countries know or don’t know about either school.</p>
<p>I have a fresh(wo)man daughter at Vandy and a junior son at Notre Dame. Both are wonderful schools. Both kids are very happy. The settings and climates are very different. If you don’t mind long, harsh winters, ND is gorgeous blanketed in snow, but the trudge to classes can be daunting. South Bend is nothing to write home about, and Chicago is really not all that close or accessible. In fact, getting to Midway or O’Hare is an arduous process – and when we booked flights into South Bend they were usually canceled and son was bus-bound to/from another airport. However, what sets ND apart is the Catholic tradition – Catholic being universal and special, as opposed to dogmatic. It is an underlying thread to campus life and incorporates a true sense of belonging and tradition. Where else would you see a football team and student body hailing Alma Mater in song, win or lose after a football game? Vandy has great neighborhood haunts and a wider social scene. It is also steeped in tradition and it has been great for my daughter to experience a culture different than ours. (As for parietals, no big deal.)</p>
<p>I have a fresh(wo)man daughter at Vandy and a junior son at Notre Dame. Both are wonderful schools. Both kids are very happy. The settings and climates are very different. If you don’t mind long, harsh winters, ND is gorgeous blanketed in snow, but the trudge to classes can be daunting. South Bend is nothing to write home about, and Chicago is really not all that close or accessible. In fact, getting to Midway or O’Hare is an arduous process – and when we booked flights into South Bend they were usually canceled and son was bus-bound to/from another airport. However, what sets ND apart is the Catholic tradition – Catholic being universal and special, as opposed to dogmatic. It is an underlying thread to campus life and incorporates a true sense of belonging and tradition. Where else would you see a football team and student body hailing Alma Mater in song, win or lose after a football game? Vandy has great neighborhood haunts and a wider social scene. It is also steeped in tradition and it has been great for my daughter to experience a culture different than ours. (As for parietals, no big deal.)</p>