<p>Idler:
Thanks again. Based upon a GC friend back East, and comments such as yours, I think a serious Vassar look-see is a must for my daughter. I have a sneaking suspicion that Vassar just might join her top group of favorites, previously, Brown, Princeton, Amherst, Pomona, Virginia, with Duke, NU, Emory, Vanderbilt, and Michigan functioning as second-choices or (with some) as safeties.</p>
<p>Idler:
Just curious- when were you at VC?? I was an undergrad 1971-75. Was this during your tenure??</p>
<p>jym: Yes, 70s.</p>
<p>Hey there...</p>
<p>As Mini said in an earlier post, Amherst and Bowdoin attract the same or similar pool of prospective students. My experience with Amherst's Theatre and Dance opportunities were not very diverse UNLESS I was willing to take classes at Smith and Mt. Holyoke. I did not mind that until I was informed by several sources that it takes the better part of a day to get to and from Smith (and Holyoke) to take classes there. That means planning and coordinating my schedule to divide my weekdays as either M-W-F at Amherst, and T-R at the other schools in the Five College Consortium, or visa versa. I am still very much attracted to Amherst as a college, but I'm not sure that I would have applied ED, if I had known about this sooner.</p>
<p>At Bowdoin, even though I would have to design a Theatre/Dance Independent major, there seems to be more dance opportunities (though I would have to spend a semester or a year at another NESCAC) than at Amherst, and a similar amount of theatre opportunities--both English departments at Bowdoin and Amherst are highly reguarded as well. As my college search progressed, I was better able to ask questions that gave me better insight into my list of schools.</p>
<p>In any case, I think that Bowdoin, Amherst and Swarthmore are more alike than different. They have a substancially smaller student enrollment than Vassar, and seem a bit more down-to-earth than the school in Poughkeepsie (sic). Again, this is just from my personal experiences with the four colleges: college tours, prospective student receptions, school fairs, and personal telephone coversations.</p>
<p>Here are some of my thoughts on the four schools...</p>
<p>Amherst: Five College Consortium, small enrollement within a small town area with about 25,000 students, an excellent English department, great financial aid (due to endowment), diverse students, and a quaint campus. Liberal student body, with strong conservative voices. No Amherst College sponsored study-away options, although you can utilize other schools' programs.</p>
<p>Bowdoin: Large town, excellent English department, near Outlets in Freeport (stretches $$$), great food (appeals to my tummy), College sponsored study-away options, close to a small city (Portland), interesting science facilities and programs, great aid, beautiful campus, and diverse (compared to the other Maine schools) student body. Like Amherst, Bowdoin students are liberal-minded but more laidback than Swat or Vassar.</p>
<p>Swarthmore: Quirky, intellectual students, Quaker values, intense course work, beautiful campus close to a large city (Philly), ability to take classes at UPenn, Bryn Mawr, and Haverford; Most engauged students, although they seem more frazzled than students at the other colleges. Again, an excellent English department, and decent food. Financial aid is generous, although not quite as good as at Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin. Commited to diversity, as well as to finding more students who are not 'typical' of their applicant pool. Swat students are very liberal, yet less activist and pc than students at Vassar.</p>
<p>Vassar: Beautiful campus in a small industrial city, okay town-gown relations, seems to have more NY students, upper division English classes are for majors, college food is decent, somewhat close to NYC, interesting theatre options, and an admissions bargain for men. Some college reps seem a bit aloof and unapproachable. Not very flexiable.</p>
<p>This is just my opinion, and might not be reflective of a typical applicants impressions. That being said, I took Vassar off my list, and kept Amherst, Bowdoin and Swarthmore very high on my college options list. Again, just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>I hope this helps. :)</p>
<p>Blaineko:</p>
<p>Aloha ahiahi. Mahalo. (My sister-in-law's ex-husband was from Hawaii ... and that pretty much exhausts my knowledge of the beautiful language of native Hawaii).</p>
<p>Seriously, thank you very much. This is good information to add to our growing due diligence file. From other posts I know you've investigated quite a few colleges -- do you have anything to say about Wesleyan, Tufts, Oberline, or Pomona?</p>
<p>Again: my D is primarily looking for strong English programs, but she has an extensive theatre background and would like to continue with it, so interesting theate opportunities are definitely a plus (although she's currently undecided whether it's something she wants to pursue as a possible minor or co-major, or, simply as an EC).</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>Dude:</p>
<p>Heh-heh. :)</p>
<p>Wesleyan U is a bit more militantly liberal, but they do have a very good English program. Although the college also gives out good financial aid packages to students, the amount of debt after four years hovers around $21,000. By contrast, Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, Colgate and Trinity have debt loads between about $10,000 to $14,000. Diversity is always an issue at Wesleyan, ulike the other schools. It does have a great film program and many theatre options, however.</p>
<p>The campus seemed a little dark, although Middletown does have all the things a student typically needs. NYC is about an 1.5 hours away, and Hartford 30 minutes. Wesleyan, like Vassar, Middlebury and Colgate--all about 2400-2500--are a bit larger than Amhers (about 1600), Bowdoin (1700), and Williams (2000). "The Gatekeepers" is an excellent book that will help you see how Wesleyan's admissions office works--a great read. Also, if Wesleyan is a first choice, definately EDII.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I hope this points you in the right direction. :)</p>
<p>"My experience with Amherst's Theatre and Dance opportunities were not very diverse UNLESS I was willing to take classes at Smith and Mt. Holyoke. I did not mind that until I was informed by several sources that it takes the better part of a day to get to and from Smith (and Holyoke) to take classes there."</p>
<p>I don't know who told you that. My d. travels to and from Mt. Holyoke every Wed. Mt. Holyoke is the furthest away of the 5 colleges, and takes 40 minutes by bus - door to door. Amherst to Smith is 20 minutes. Depending on where you get on and off, not much more than walking from end of the campus to the other. (Unless you go around 5 p.m., when indeed there is "bridge traffic".) (The bus lets out by the door of the dance theatre.) But it is definitely true that Smith is the center of the 5-college theatre and dance scene. The stuff they have at Amherst seemed fine - there just isn't that much of it.</p>
<p>Average debt loads can be deceiving. Much of it depends on whom they accept. At Williams, 60% of the student body receives no financial aid whatsoever. (Swarthmore's numbers are significantly higher.) Fewer than 10% are on Pell Grants (meaning family incomes below $40k a year - Amherst is at 16%, for comparison.). So it could be that debt loads are higher when more folks toward the upper end of the economic spectrum are offered aid when at Williams (or Trinity), they are offered none at all. </p>
<p>If study abroad is an issue, you need to look at the quality and range of offerings of the language departments, the percentage of students who go actually go abroad (and not just for winter term), and the commitment the schools have made to their own programs in that regard. Middlebury, Vassar, and Wesleyan are all pretty good on that score - can't comment much on the others, except for Williams, where the quality of languages (measured by range of offerings - I'm sure the faculty are just fine) is relatively low. However, they do have a longstanding Williams-in-Oxford program (which is great for English majors, and is connected to Exeter College, Oxford - Tolkien's college.) (And they sent me upon graduation to Worcester College, Oxford, so I can hardly complain!)</p>
<p>Hey Mini:</p>
<p>I just meant that it is an almost all day thing...it is smarter to set up the schedule to take classes on one or two other campuses rather than schedule classes at Amherst also. :)</p>
<p>So, I would most likely need to take the two classes at Smith or Mt. Holyoke on different days than classes at Amherst. I'm excited about Smith, though. Just wish I was born female. :) Oh well.</p>
<p>It's true that dance and theatre things take time. But it isn't a transportation issue thing. It would take virtually equal time at Amherst.</p>
<p>But, yes, scheduling can get interesting!</p>
<p>Hey there Mini:</p>
<p>As far as studying goes, I agree with you. It's the 35 to 45 minutes in traffic, that I've heard over and over from some students, a college video, and some college reps that give me pause. I just need to be very careful as to how I schedule my classes or learn to wake up with the sun in the morning. Heh-heh.</p>
<p>I also have to admit that the financial aid packages the Amherst hands out to ED students is a little heavier on loans than RD admits, as well as similar peer colleges (especially Williams & Bowdoin). Anyhow, that is also a fact, albet a smaller concern than scheduling at Amherst for dance.</p>
<p>Mahalo for you insights, it is helping to reassure me somewhat. :)</p>