deleted so as not to derail the OP’s thread . . . .
“OK, take this from someone who knows nothing about sports recruitment at Haverford, but you should go through the Haverford forum here carefully. I remember a lengthy thread about Haverford not coming through for recruited athletes in ED.”
The vast majority of posts I’ve seen regarding this are centered around the men’s lacrosse team although Haverford tends to give less of an athletic boost in admissions than most schools. Men’s lacrosse has a new coach now. Also want to add that Haverford’s track coach is very much a straight shooter and good communicator. I’ve never heard complaints about him.
“I just do not get the honor code model, and it felt uncomfortable to me.”
Your descriptions of Haverford’s honor code are so off the mark from the actual reality that I agree, you don’t get it. Haverford isn’t the right environment for every person, though.
“I do not see why LACs tip towards girls, as all its doing is throwing many boys into state programs and giving girls advantages of smaller schools and smaller environments. Its really not particularly fair to boys in fact, that so many all boys schools have switched to admitting more girls than boys. Why not keep it balanced? If its important for girls to get into STEM, its equally important for boys to get into teaching and nursing careers. Otherwise, what are we really saying?”
Simple: they get more applications from females than males and they aren’t going to stoop below the level of their desired level of qualifications just to fill seats with males. Academic integrity is more important than gender balance. Most LACs don’t offer engineering and, as already mentioned, business majors which tend to be more male dominated.
I missed this- and you misunderstand. The LACs want gender parity- the challenge (as @doschicos said) is that more women apply than men. The admission rate for men at Vassar* is almost double the rate for women. Side by side, it’s harder for girls to get into many (possibly most) LACs than it is for a guy with the same profile. Not exactly unfair to the guys!
*Haverford is the same for both genders, which may in part reflect it’s past as an all-male school, just as Vassar’s may reflect it’s past as an all-female school.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I know both schools are great and my son can’t go wrong at either. I think I am more concerned about vibe at schools. He may have to try to squeeze in another visit. Haverford is smaller than Vassar but is part of tri-college consortium. Do kids from Haverford socialize much w Swarthmore. Think there’s a van that goes between 3 campuses.
Im (limited) experience there is more student interaction with Bryn Mawr than Swarthmore. The Tri-Co shuttle does run between all 3 places. How much socializing between schools depends more on the particular kid (same as any socializing!). Strongly back going with his feel for the places: they are both pretty distinctive flavors, and one person’s licorice is another person’s coriander…
Yes the amount of socializing among the three schools depends on the student in question. The buses run on a regular schedule. Some of the departments are shared – i think linguistics is shared by all three and geology is run by BMC for Haverford and the studio art program is run at Haverford for BMC, that sort of thing. Haverford uses BMC’s pool. The social activities and clubs, I’m pretty sure, are open for the tri-co members.
In the end it’s all possible for any amount of socializing at any school that a student wants or has time for. Because of proximity, I think that BMC and Haverford just have more interaction, though.
@collegemom3717 Vassar’s 60-40 women to men ratio is about average for LACs. Haverford’s is unusual if it’s 50-50 or close to that. Union has a lot of STEM and it has the opposite ratio approximately 60-40 men to women ratio.
On this forum one OP at one time wondered what the gender balance was of the tri-co in general and I think I figured out that counting all three schools together the balance was 60-40 women to men, or about average for LACs.
@Coloradomama I agree that LACs are nice places for men to attend school and wanted to note that there are some public LACs – SUNY Geneseo; St. Mary’s of MD, New College of Florida are examples. Some honors programs at large state Us have a similar model to LACs–smaller classes, seminar settings, etc.
So hard to decide and be bound to go ED but best shot of getting in. He has never been away from home before so worried about adjustment as well. Have heard that Haverford may be more supportive than Vassar.
Re: post 25:
Geneseo has 5,512 undergraduates. While it is smaller than other NY state universities like Binghamton or Stony Brook, IMO it is more similar in size and feel to midsized colleges like Princeton (5260 undergrads) than to small colleges like Vassar and Haverford. Nonetheless, it is certainly true that Geneseo is a great choice for kids who are looking for a high-quality state college that is not gigantic.
New College of Florida is tiny and a true small liberal arts college environment.
IMHO both schools are supportive but in different ways. This decision really comes down to how he feels about the schools. Both offer Econ and both set him up well for B-school or law school.
If you can afford the time and money to visit again, just to walk around the two schools, I recommend doing so. That may help one stand out for you.
As others have noted, LACs want gender parity, so there is no purposeful “tip towards girls.” In fact, the gender disparity is happening across all colleges and universities; it’s just that it is more consistently pronounced at LACs. The recession hit everyone hard, but it hit working class men especially hard. Many women responded by seeking an education, whether as a new first-year student, a CC student seeking a two-year degree or certificate, or an older student hoping to change careers through retraining. Males, for some reason, did not follow this trend.
Long term, this disparity is expected to increase, but all colleges and universities (or nearly all) want diversity and parity. As another poster noted, while females might find it tougher to be admitted at some institutions, they’ll be desirable at others. Same is true for men, who probably have an edge (a tiny edge) at many LACs, especially those that have high female enrollment, such as the former all-women’s colleges. There is no bias against men.
I appreciate comments on gender disparity but that is not what I asked.
I am hearing that there are a lot of “hipsters” at Vassar who are changing culture of campus in reading reviews from students. Anyone have any thoughts. My son is definitely on the more preppy side- very athletic- not into music or theatre and definitely straight although non-judgmental. We are still trying to decide bw Vassar and Haverford! Help!
tbh, having your son re-visit & make the call is going to be much more productive than you reading student reviews, about which you have no frame of reference.
Are there hipsters at Vassar? yes, though I wouldn’t see it as dominant (but then, it may depend on what you consider a ‘hipster’- and the cleaners across the street from campus cleans Uggs, which are as un-hipster as it gets!). Is Haverford on average preppier than Vassar? probably. Are there plenty of straight guys at Vassar? definitely (according to my Vassar collegekid, who is currently dating one & who shared a college apartment with 4(!) of them, none of whom were into music or theater (5 bedroom apt, if you are wondering…).
But none of that really matters: hand on heart, the 2 schools feel so very different- and he is going to be the one living there- that you need to let him make this call. Not “we” - HE.
you are so right! Thank you!
Haverford is more sporty than Vassar. But agree with others that it sounds like your S should revisit before he makes a decision
Vassar has always had more hipsters and artsy kids than the average college! But that does not mean that all or even most kids there fit that label. A cousin of ours who is a recent grad would not be described that way. He swam on their swimming team. His friends had a wide variety of interests. I met a bunch at his wedding, and they were not so different from Williams or Haverford or Cornell or whatever other colleges’ students we know.
Of my spouse and his four male friends with whom we have kept touch all these years, only one is an artist. 3 of that group of 5 guys (including the artist) met their wives at Vassar! We had a mini-reunion at one of their houses this summer and they shared so many memories of good times at Vassar. It is a great college with a very friendly social milieu, where people really do make lifelong friends.
I would guess the same is true of Haverford. Your child should pick the college that feels best to him. He will find friends at either.
My son is a freshman at Vassar. He’s an athlete, but not for Vassar and has no interest in theater, and he’s straight. He’s found good friends, plays intamural soccer and works out at the gym. Recently when I asked if he felt he chose the right school he said yes. He’s only a few monthss in but but he’s happy with this choice. Initially he was attracted to the freedom of the curriculum and loved the campus. He still feels the same way.
Haverford was on my initial list of schools for him. He refused to even visit because it was so small.
Your son may want to examine his academic preferences. How does he feel about core curriculum and their requirements? Some find them tedious and restrictive. Visits are essential.
Good luck to your son during this process.