<p>I am a international student from China, and I just got accepted by both Vassar and University of Notre Dame. I love both of them so I can't really decide where to go. So can you guys give me some advice. Thanks.</p>
<p>I plan to major in science or math and minor in political science or psychology (ND better). I might go to grad school after college. I am a little shy and quiet when I first meet up with people so I want to go to a school that is friendly to international students and is very inclusive (Vassar better). The location is not as important as the weather (I heard ND's whether sucks?). </p>
<p>Please give me some advice! Don't just say "Vassar is great blah blah blah" I want some objective advice. Thank you!</p>
<p>Well, I got to Vassar, so of course I’m going to say Vassar, but I have friends at Notre Dame who love it. May I ask which science you want to major in? If it’s biology, come to Vassar! I’m a presumptive bio major (since I’m still a freshman, I haven’t declared) and I love the facilities and the professors. I also know quite a few students majoring in chemistry, physics, and math, and they all seem to like it quite a bit. My roommate is very into psychology, and from what I hear, the program isn’t half bad. If it’s just your correlate, you might want to look more at the programs you want to major in, because the correlate is not nearly as important.</p>
<p>I don’t know about ND, but most Vassar students do end up going to grad school within five years. I’m sure the stats are similar for ND. The weather at Vassar was…weird this year, a little too warm for my liking, but normally it is a bit cold and it rains often, but it’s absolutely gorgeous when it does. I don’t know much about ND weather. Also, it’s pretty easy to get to the city, which is nice. </p>
<p>In terms of international students, I think Vassar is very inclusive. Quite a few of my friends are international students and I think that a lot of people go out of their way to make international students feel welcome, because, while domestic students have a big adjustment to make, we know that international students have an even bigger one.</p>
<p>Well, I wish you luck in your endeavors! You will pick the school that is right for you, and while I hope that is Vassar, it’s more important that you find your fit.</p>
<p>Serbia, this person not going will, in all likelihood, not affect your wait-list status. Usually, very few spots open up, if any, and one person not attending will not change that. Saying ‘not to be a jerk’ doesn’t make what you said any less rude.</p>
<p>it’s a joke, crazy how i can still make a joke when i got waitlisted and rejected by a bunch of schools… obviously I am joking and I am just brooding in my own way and he shouldn’t be taking what I said seriously, and Notre Dame is a great school anyways, and I don’t think sperky would be annoyed by what I said</p>
<p>These are vastly different choices. The biggest difference, I think, is the student body. I personally like both schools, so it’s not a good versus evil choice. But there are big differences in terms of who you will be with. And since these will be people you will know and count on as friends throughout your life, it’s not a bad thing to focus on who your fellow students are and what they’re like.</p>
<p>Vassar is much more diverse than Notre Dame – in terms of the make-up of the student body as well as their intellectual and ideological diversity. I have studied with Chinese students and know several from Notre Dame (which is where I went to college many eons ago). All of them are very big fans of Notre Dame and love their Notre Dame education. Like many Chinese students I know, all of these people who went to Notre Dame and loved it were very conservative by nature. (Bold enough to study abroad for college…but among that group of adventurers, these people were more conservative in their ways.) Of course there are many Chinese students I know who are not conservative and are interested in exploring and experimenting and dabbling in new things. The stranger the people around them seem, the more fascinating they are to these other students. And these more intrigued students, I suspect, would do well in an environment like Vassar.</p>
<p>I think you’ll find the weather to be similar enough in both South Bend and Poughkeepsie. Same for the interaction with the city – and your infrequent visits to New York would, instead, be infrequent visits to Chicago on the lengthy commuter rail line to South Bend.</p>
<p>Both admission offices think you’re the kind of person who would succeed in their environment…so I doubt you could make a bad choice between the two. I think the question boils down to whether you want to experience America in a very tight-knit, supportive community that is relatively conservative and very homogenous or whether you want to be among people who tend to be much more individualistic, more unconventional and very difficult to peg or pin down by stereotypes. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer here – but if you think there’s a right or a wrong answer for you, then I would suggest at least leaning in that direction as you consider other factors that are important to you.</p>
<p>Good luck with your choice – but, as different as these choices are, I don’t think you can make a bad choice.</p>
<p>I recall that ND recently came out on Forbes as the #8 school for salary of alumni 10 or more years out of school – ahead of just about every Ivy school. Average was $152,000, I think. Notre Dame’s alumni office made a big deal of it and it’s something you might feel good about for your college – but it didn’t make me any wealthier. In terms of helping someone choose where to attend does it have any relevance at all?</p>
<p>Here’s an overview for 2011 published by CNBC:</p>
<p>Neither Notre Dame or Vassar are on this list – and I’m glad because I’m not trying to suggest that this is a good way to make the choice. But when people ask for objective data, dollars tend to be an easy-to-reach answer. The type and quality of the people you will meet and associate with and collaborate with for the rest of your life is not so easily quantified…and so that gets overlooked.</p>
<p>The reason I like this CNBC breakdown of the colleges with the highest paid graduates is the fact that it establishes no trend. The list is populated by colleges big and small, Ivy Leagues and near unknowns, technical schools and liberal arts colleges, public and private institutions – and they reach across the United States.</p>
<p>In the end, your earning potential is going to be what you make of it. There’s no best choice here and I think the dollar-based objective data that gets tossed around (apart from tuition and fees) will provide nothing more than a false sense of reliability. They are both great institutes of higher learning.</p>
<p>I’m in the same dilemma! I’m currently on a weekend is it to Notre Dame and I’ve been very impressed. It’s a lot less conservative and strict than I expected, but it still is obvious unfortunately. I received financial aid packages from both schools yesterday, and both are stellar. At ND I will have to pay about 1700 less than Vassar, but I have heard from students here that your aid gets significantly worse and worse, even if your need doesn’t change. I’m visiting Vassar in a couple of weeks. If I like it I’ll probably end up attending Vassar.</p>
<p>I went to Notre Dame at a time when its Catholic identity dovetailed with many causes that liberal-oriented students could identify with. Notre Dame was influential in shaping the “Land o’ Lakes” statement in 1967(?) that asserted a sort of intellectual and academic independence from the Vatican for Catholic colleges and universities in the U.S. The premise was that universities were well-suited to question and challenge church doctrine in a responsible way. To more religiously conservative minds, this watered-down the very nature of the Catholic identity. Any private university could challenge the Vatican. So, to be a Catholic university meant conforming to doctrine…and that’s exactly what happened in a document known as “Ex Corde Ecclesiae” that Pope John Paul II issued. “Ex Corde” put the universities under the oversight of the local diocese. For Notre Dame, this meant that the bishop in South Bend would have final approval over important decisions. Like whether the newly inaugurated U.S. President was acceptable to speak at commencement and receive an honorary degree. The bishop objected and boycotted the graduation ceremonies in 2009. Other bishops joined in the outrage that Notre Dame would pull an end run on the bishop.</p>
<p>So, think of the bishop as a Super Trustee with veto power – even though the bishop may have an arms-length or distant relationship with the university and have other fish to fry within the diocese. The university, in all likelihood, is simply one of the resources and assets of the diocese.</p>
<p>This is an important consideration, I think, for a student thinking of entering Notre Dame today. In terms of the Catholic identity, it’s becoming more and more socially conservative all the time and cleaved to established doctrine. It’s a battle that Notre Dame – despite its best and valiant efforts to resist the changes of “Ex Corde” – is already losing.</p>
<p>Here’s an op-ed piece from the Chronicle of Higher Education that discusses the transition from “Land o’ Lakes” to “Ex Corde” and where things are headed. Insofar as the history that’s spelled out, it’s a good account. I personally disagree with the direction of the author, an influential figure in the Cardinal Newman Society, a conservative organization that wants “Ex Corde” carried out to its most literal end. I don’t like what he says here, but this is where things are heading. And it’s been more than a year since this was written so it’s more than a year down the line.</p>
<p>I’m picking up that you value liberalism when it comes to your college choice. I’d love for my alma mater to stock up on more students like you…but I wouldn’t recommend it as a place to spread your liberal wings and soar. And by the time the next four years are up, the skies won’t be one bit more friendly.</p>