Hi, I’m a senior who is rather lost and indecisive about college applications. I’m trying to figure out where to apply ED, but it’s a struggle. I want a small liberal arts school with a strong arts program—I know Brown doesn’t necessarily fit these criteria, but when I visited I felt like I would be very happy there and would fit in well with the people. I like Vassar because of its proximity to NYC, but I honestly don’t know that much about it. From what I’ve read, it seems like it would be a good fit but I don’t know much about the character of the school and student body.
Brown was great, but I honestly think the dual-degree program with RISD lured me in, and I don’t know how much I would want to attend Brown if I were to be rejected from that program. That program is a true pipe dream, and I feel like applying early to Brown would increase my chances of being accepted—but that’s a gamble.
I loved the academics and environment at Williams, but I’m afraid there are too many rich, preppy white kids and that I wouldn’t fit in well. I’m pretty artsy and while I don’t want to go to school with a bunch of people exactly like me, I also don’t want to be the loan artist surrounded by future CEO’s.
I think my main focus is the character of these particular institutions. What type of student thrives at each of these schools?Which schools have the strongest art programs?
Williams is incredibly strong in the arts with great alumni connections. And when you are well into your art career, it might be good to know a few CEO types who can fund art programs, museums, etc.
Vassar: English major/artsy veneer, recently offset by their investment in an impressive new science building. Beautiful chapel and library. The gender imbalance, though real, does not differ significantly from the national average. A convenient train ride from New York City, though the Hudson Valley also has attractions to offer. Irrespective of its surface vibe, Vassar is a mainstream college at its core, enhanced by a broad curriculum, excellent resources and accomplished students.
@1yearmore, As I mentioned in one of your earlier threads my son graduated from Williams with a dual degree in art studio and art history. Williams has strong commitment to the arts, not just visual arts but also music and other performing arts. Their art history program is one of the best in the country (if not the best) with three world class museums on or near campus. Their art studio facilities and faculty are excellent. No way would you be “the lone artist surrounded by future CEO’s.”
My son liked Brown, but preferred Williams’ insular, nature driven environment. This is something to consider as Williamstown and Providence are vastly different. Not that one is better than the other, but they are notably different.
I don’t know that applying ED to Brown would help in admission to the Brown/RISD joint program and I wouldn’t count on it. In any event Brown has a very good art department of its own, and it’s possible to take courses at RISD, though scheduling can be difficult.
Vassar and Williams are also very different culturally. Williams kids tend to be more extroverted, athletic, outdoorsy, middle-road politically; Vassar kids more urban, trendy, politically liberal. Again, neither is better, just different. I think if you were to overnight at each, one would rise to the top of your list.
There is a component of “rich and white” at all northeast privates, but the majority of students are middle class and friendly. (The advantage of Williams is that there’s not much to spend money on in the Berkshires, so economic discrepancy is less apparent.)
From Williams website:
“Preppy” is fairly meaningless as a descriptor as even prep schools are not preppy any more. All of these schools try hard to matriculate a high achieving non-White, economically diverse student body. I note from your other thread that you are interested in fashion. Although none of these schools offers fashion design per se, I would give Vassar the edge for having a fashion conscious student body and of Brown’s RISD connection means design opportunities.
This is something you have to decide for yourself. Keep reading and researching. Visit the individual college forums here. These are all great places.Brown ED is said by admissions not to give a boost after special cases (athletes, legacies.) Brown/RISD program is very hard to get as you have to first be admitted to both, then reviewed. But at Brown you can take 4 (I think) classes at RISD which is very close at hand.
Some student has written a guide and there is a FB page for cross registered students to share. I guess the RISD studio classes are 5 hrs so it is tricky. http://brownrisdcrossregistration.com/
@1yearmore I wouldn’t apply to Vassar because of Manhattan. It is not close. Driving is 2.5 hours and possibly more unless you are blessed with no traffic.
Amtrak is a little better because you won’t be stuck in traffic. With the train you have to factor another hour on top of the actual train ride. Figure 3 hours each way.
@BatesParent2019, why do you have to figure another hour on top of the actual train ride? It is about 15 minutes from Vassar to the station. Amtrak is 1 1/2 hour trip, and leaves you at Penn Station, while Metro North is just under 2 hours (1 hour / 52 minutes and leaves you at Grand Central, so comfortably in mid-town for whatever you want to do. My D2 has found it painless to go down on the train, have dinner, see a show and come back that evening. The hard part is finding an evening where there aren’t a bunch of things on campus she wants to do
And while I would never advocate driving, I have driven Poughkeepsie to Times Square (at normal times not middle of the night or peak rush hour) in under 2 hours.
If you are looking for a combination of fine arts and a major city, then you should consider Tufts. It is between Williams and Brown in size and was a LAC with professional schools (located in downtown Boston) until the 1980’s.
Most of the grad school expansion (with the exception of some new science and engineering buildings) has been in the downtown Boston campus , so it still has the feel of a LAC. The Phd programs are concentrated in the health sciences to complement the professional schools.
Art is the third most popular major at Tufts, so it has one of the largest population of artists in the Northeast. The city of Somerville (Tufts is located in Medford/Somerville) has the second highest concentration of artists in the country. There is a joint degree program with the Museum School of the Museum of Fine Arts (in Boston), but the Museum School faculty also teach all the studio art classes on the Tufts campus.
Getting into the Museum School is hard, but not as hard as RISD. Note that a museum school typically does not have as broad a set of design offerings as a design school. The Museum Schools’ strongest area is painting and drawing. The joint degree program at Tufts is not as convenient as at Brown because RISD is closer to Brown than the Museum School is to Tufts. The fact that the Museum School faculty teach the studio courses at Tufts makes for lots of high quality course offerings though - even if you are not enrolled in the joint degree program. My daughter loved the painting courses at Tufts.
Here is a ranking of Fine/Studio Arts programs that takes into account size and breadth of related programs as well as career outcomes. Both Tufts and Williams do well using this particular set of ranking criteria. If you want to go rural and pure LAC, then Williams has a very good program and the Clark Museum (nearby) is really nice and a great local resource.
Here is a list of studio art courses available for the fall semester both on the Tufts campus and downtown at the Museum of Fine Arts. (There is a shuttle bus between the two campuses).
I’d say that your assumptions about Williams are really way off (and based more on what Williams was many decades ago, not today) – the most recent incoming class has 9 percent international students, and well over 40 percent of the class consists of American students of color. And not all the white kids (far from it) are “preppy and rich.” So preppy, rich white kids constitute, at best, maybe a fifth of the student body, if that. Williams is also among the most economically diverse elite colleges (Vassar even moreso, I think it tops the list), with about a fifth of the student body receiving Pell Grants and many first-generation college students.
Also, very few schools offer an artistic environment to top Williams. A huge percentage of the student body are involved in arts or music extracurriculars. You have the WCMA on campus (which has a program in which any student can – for real – borrow artwork to hand on their dorm room walls) plus MassMOCA and The Clark just off campus. Williams has a massive, super-cool art studio facility. Intro to art history is perhaps the most popular class on campus, and art history (arguably the best program on campus) has the highest concentration of famous Williams alumni, dominating the ranks of museum curators across the country. Williams’ spectacular college theater is nationally-known for hosting the Williamstown Theater Festival during the summer, and Williams also has many famous alums in the theater world, including Stephen Sondheim and William Finn. The dance program is also really strong. There are no shortage of VERY artsy students on campus, you will hardly be a minority, let alone feel like you are on an island.
Mastadon - I have been researching Tufts/SMFA for several months – as my daughter is interested in pursuing Art at SMFA and playing sports/residing on the Tufts campus. I have seen too many negative posts commenting on lack of rigor & structure at SMFA, as well as the lack of connectivity between the two schools (which I have experienced during our exploration over the past 6 months.) My daughter is a motivated, academic student - but I am concerned that she will be supported with solid instruction, internship opportunities, etc. It sounds like your daughter had a positive experience – true? Is/was she a Tufts student, an SMFA BFA student, or a dual degree student?
