I wish companies would issue a joint statement something to this effect:
“Hey kids - Don’t worry about where you go to school. We’re going to be college-blind. As long as you graduate, we will invite you for interviews and as long as you perform in the interviews, we’ll hire you!”
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But that also seems like an argument to me for things like holistic review - obviously a child can’t control these things and shouldn’t be penalized for them. I mean, obviously such things are generally not explicitly stated on applications, but I think this is the kind of context they’re hoping to figure out when evaluating students.
I am certainly not arguing that it is a perfect system. It very obviously is not. But I do believe that they are trying to create a somewhat level field within a process where a truly level playing field has never and will never exist. I think they are making a good faith effort at that. And I don’t think other strategies currently being used by other university systems are necessarily any better or more “fair.”
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Does anyone know if the UC’s or CSU validate the “honors” classes to make sure they truly count as honors for the additional point? One of my friends said they just indicated honors on the application if the class had honors in the name of the class.
With the exception of a few professions (investment banking comes to mind), I do think this is essentially true. And the same could be said for grad school, law school, med school, etc.
But I agree it would be great if this message became louder in our society than the current one which seems to be all about prestige and a highly flawed top 20 list.
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The UCOP website lists the approved Honors classes for each CA HS so very easy to validate.
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You can look up your school here
Classes may have honors in their title but are not given an honors bump (orange band with yellow star) when calculating UC GPA. The UCs know this and correct it when calculating GPA. Sometimes the application will alert a student if they entered course information incorrectly for their particular high school.
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Our high school’s classes populated in the drop down menu. Only the ones US has approved as honors showed an honors option.
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Yes, this is what I recall as well and I think it is standard for California high schools - you start typing in the name and it gives you the pre-set options to choose from. And, if I recall correctly, it was true for both high school classes and DE classes (the pre-set options, I mean).
It must have been the CSU app that you select what type of course it is.
UC’s do not have enough data on students to admit fairly. Most schools have 7 semesters of grades and rigor+ test scores. UCs have 4 semesters and for pandemic kids many only had 2 semesters. PIQs are highly subjective and can be written by anyone, there is no guarantee that the student didn’t use AI or pay a professional to rewrite. I do not think they are diligent in finding the best “fit” for their school. They have whittled away at admissions requirements so much that there is little evidence to back up their lottery ticket of admission-- because of this many more are applying but are they more qualified? Probably not.
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The CSU app was even easier to fill out than the UC one - it had an option to import all your courses from your high school so any approved honors or AP classes were already locked in.
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Yes, it is not too surprising if a student with high test scores gets disappointing UC results compared to results at other colleges perceived to be similarly selective but have greater emphasis on test scores. This was the case even before UCs went test blind – test scores carried relatively little weight even back when they were required.
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I noticed that from looking at my district’s Naviance data “way back” in 2014 and 2016 when my first two teens applied to UCs with SAT scores. It was clear to me that UC even then weighed SATs much less than GPAs (and presumably course rigor). It was like the writing was on the wall that the SAT would fade away for UC; it already had been.
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Maybe one thing UC could do to get more data on these applicants is to require a mid-year senior grade update (and also review 9th grade GPA as Cal Poly SLO does)–but then they’d need to hire an even bigger pool of sweatshop AO PIQ readers than they already do. . .
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Yes. See University of California A-G Course List which lists which courses are honors for UC purposes.
I am not sure I agree with that blanket statement. Maybe for some schools they overlook scores, but for our very high performing So Cal school, I think test scores were an important factor. The school counselors give out the stats for each UC school acceptance.
Back in 2019, our HS’s AVERAGE SAT score was 1550. UCLA was actually harder than Berkeley (1520 SAT). And back in 2019 we had 34 admits to UCLA. With the change in admissions, for the 2022 class, I think there were only maybe 12 kids accepted to UCLA.
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UC’s have 3 years of courses and grades to consider not just 4 semesters(2 years) since 9-11th courses and grades are reported the application. The do not accept Senior Mid-year grades but 12th grade courses are listed to determine HS course rigor.
9th grade courses are reviewed for completion of the a-g requirements and HS course rigor but the grades are not used in their GPA calculation.
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It’s so nice to commiserate with all of you. This entire process has taken a few years off our lives, for sure. We do not like the lying/indulging on applications, or gaming the system, as some have mentioned. It does outwardly appear that one needs to be “good” at this (application) game in order to be super successful. FWIW, I don’t think we are good at it. Haha. Our Hispanic daughter (4.87 WGPA, 3.97 UW ((She had one B+ in AP Bio)) has been offered admission to 1 UC, denied to 1 and waitlisted at 2.
Do we feel she should have been admitted to all? Absolutely! However, we’re beginning to feel very fortunate for the 1 she has. We have told her all along that she will go where she’s supposed to go - but man, this is very difficult to reconcile. Thanks for being a sounding board - and to the moderators, we have learned so much from you and this thread. Appreciate you all!
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This has been very stressful for us as well. We have an amazing, genuine, hard working twice exceptional kiddo who has overcome adversity. Early grad with 3 AA degrees on top of full load of high school courses. Yes, she did have some B’s due to a tough semester and couple more here and there. 3.82UW, 4.58W, 40+ A-G courses in just 3 years, 8APs, 20+DE courses. We are in a public high school in a very rich town with lots of kids with 4.0UW, no worries in life and a fancy activity list. But none of them have gone out of their way and extended themselves the way she has: lots of work experience, volunteering, top notch musical achievements, family responsibilities, school and regional level awards and lots of leadership. 20 meaningful activities and most are with 3+ years commitment. She is first gen American, but not first gen college. Even very summer DE courses, full time job etc, she just never stops. So far 2 rejections and 1 waitlist. She is pretty gutted. L&S major, PIQ’s were good, not sure what went wrong other than the B’s made the admissions just overlook her?
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