I would love UC to offer what USC and others do: a Spring admission option instead of a waitlist or rejection. That way those CA high stats students with a true “dream school” (although I think parents shouldn’t encourage that term/thnking but sometimes it happens regardless) would happily wait til Spring to enroll instead of being driven out of state, maybe forever. Surely there is some attrition after the first semester.
I’m speculating that they might be doing exactly that. Perhaps they have found that these students don’t actually perform that well once they get to college, having been exhausted by just getting there. Again, speculative, but not without some examples that come to mind.
I would hope that the net effect of parents understanding that pushing their kids to take every AP and select EC’s based upon college admissions desirability will not guarantee admission, and that a fair number of “less achievement driven” students are being admitted ahead of the college mill students will discourage parents from driving the kids so furiously.
I do think when a student has not had some agency over their education it must come through in PIQ’s and other places in the application.
Again, all speculation. I’m not “saying” anything.
5 Likes
UC Berkeley offers the FPF (Fall program for Fall) for that reason.
1 Like
I saw some reassuring data for the top 9% ELC (which my student is and I think many on this thread are) that as long as they “apply widely” they are VERY likely to be admitted to at least one UC campus applied to. It’s not “Merced or bust for the top 9%;” an important strategy is more like: don’t apply to only 3-4 UCs. Apply to 7-8. Luckily my DD did apply to 7, not 3. And luckily she has no interest in Computer Science. That’s the wildcard this year where practically everyone was shut out/waitlisted from UCs.
2 Likes
Berkeley’s spring admit program is called FPF (Fall Program for First Semester). https://fpf.berkeley.edu/
1 Like
Hard to say whether kids will be less driven by the lottery style nature of the current process or more driven because of its appearance of capriciousness makes it even more important that every box is checked. Personally, I prefer public universities to have established transparent standards so students have a good sense of their standing prior to applying. Much less stressful
4 Likes
ME is one of those hard majors for admissions. Has she toured UCSC? I know students there who LOVE it–or is it just the 2nd choice major the reason why she likely won’t SIR there? I know someone (Gen X so a while ago) who transferred from UCSB to UCSC and much preferred it.
1 Like
Are you referring to the CSU system?
1 Like
Grades can also be hidden from UC this way: there are some online a-g approved classes or AP classes that have very “flexible” end dates. Students can finish a class in say 6 weeks or 6 months or anywhere in between. So let’s say a student is taking the second semester of AP Bio online through a provider (not their main high school) during their junior year. And they have the option to finish the class their junior year, or the summer after their junior year, or during the fall semester of their senior year.
If they think they are on track for an A, they will finish the class earlier. If they think they are on track for a B or C, they will finish the class fall of their senior year. It’s kind of a loophole that could be closed. I think UC should take a careful look at the online approved providers of a-g and AP classes to ensure that a class started in a particular semester actually ends then.
1 Like
I honestly hope so too. However, it’s not necessarily within human nature to give up, which seems to be essentially the hopeful goal that you speculate this system has. By holistically selecting based on this idea that these gunner kids, who dedicate their whole being to building a good profile, should have their achievements discounted due to the fact that they “try too hard” is not healthy for any party involved.
These kids are only going to put themselves, or be put by their family/community, through even more stress, as they attempt to do even better than the kids of the last admissions cycle in order to secure their goals. All in all, it’s more just going to perpetuate a vicious cycle.
2 Likes
Agreed that high grades are necessary but not sufficient. Clearly 25+ a-gs and 10+ APs are key too.
1 Like
I think an overlooked aspect of the ‘Bay Area penalty’ in admissions is that the most popular majors for applicants varies regionally. If you are from a competitive HS in the South Bay, which majors are those that have had success in UC applications being admitted into? Which majors for the amazing students that have been turned down everywhere? At least in our South Bay HS, the acceptances are generally outside CS/Engineering and the rejections (many more in number and often the students with what most would consider a stronger application) are mostly in CS/Engineering. This is why we need major-level admissions data for each of the UCs… kids think they have a good shot at acceptance into majors with <10% acceptance rates from their HS. FWIW, I think this plays a large role in lower acceptance rates for Asians (esp Asian males) in college admissions as well… disproportionately applying to the most competitive majors.
2 Likes
Yep. I kind of wish my current senior had had one or two more APs to put her in that top group. She hit the A-G top bracket but fell just a tad under on the other. Her brother did a bit better two years ago and he hit both. BUT nobody can say that it would have made the difference, and I’m certainly not complaining as she has 4 UCs to pick from. One more to hear from and then we are done and it comes down to the visiting!
1 Like
I agree–it would be great if applicants could rank their choices. Right now many UCD admits might love to swap for a UCSB admit and vice versa. Not everyone wants the urban environments of “most selective/desirable” UCLA/Cal.
In the UK students are permitted to apply to Oxford or Cambridge but not both.
3 Likes
At least in Texas it is clear who will automatically obtain acceptance from instate. I do not agree with the Texas “top 10% rule”, which has evolved into the top 6% for UT Austin. However, the kids generally know early on if that is an attainable goal. The kids start to look at other viable college choices if they cannot meet that criteria. Kids can also still apply if not in top 6%, just not automatic admission.
I understand the UC venting. Virtual hugs. Not clearly knowing how the decisions are made… make it more difficult in a different way… thinking you have a chance. It seems as if there are so many UC “institutional priorities”, it does seem like a lottery for high achieving kids.
3 Likes
Exactly. Which is why people shouldn’t get caught up in a GPA p++ssing contest, complaining that someone with a 3.8 got in over someone with a 4.0 and claiming that that’s somehow not fair.
5 Likes
This, 100%. I know students who applied to 2, 3, 4 UCs. This strategy literally makes no sense. You’re already completing the lengthy application. Apply to all the campuses you would be willing to attend. My son applied to 7, accepted at 2, waitlisted at 2, denied at 2, waiting on 1. All in all, great results from our perspective. I have no idea why he was accepted at Davis and waitlisted at Irvine, or waitlisted at San Diego and rejected at Santa Barbara. If we had been too picky about location, he could be sitting on zero admissions right now.
4 Likes
My DD is feeling the opposite. She was waitlisted from UCLA her “dream school” and noticed that a fellow student took 4 AP online classes every summer and was admitted. Now she’s wishing she had done the same. . .in other words, she’s decided that she didn’t work hard ENOUGH, not that she worked too hard and it was “all for nothing.” I’m trying to teach her to chill about it all, and focus on gratitude rather than regret, but she’s just not a very chill person (her 3 older brothers all were/are, so I don’t think it’s my parenting or pressure). . .
1 Like
That’s good to know; I forgot about that possibility. Maybe I’ll have my DD look into that if that’s what she’s offered from Cal next week. I’ve heard of it but I don’t really understand it.
Is there a Bay Area penalty? I am only familiar with my daughter’s school, but we always get very good to excellent results with the UCs and this year has been no exception. Never even occurred to me that we were being penalized. Is that not the case at other Bay Area high schools?