lol if international students don’t find it attractive to attend Merced or Riverside, they can attend universities in their country.
You’d be surprised to know, many foreign students enroll in universities like Tri-Valley University and community colleges - their goal is to come to USA, doesn’t matter which university.
The top universities in China, i.e. Tshinghua University and Peking University, and India, e.g. IIT’s, have hardly any foreign students, their priority is to educate their own citizens, then why should top US universities, specifically “public” universities e.g. Berkeley and UCLA, bend backwards to attract international students, at the expense of educating more Americans?
It’s not “at the expense of educating more Americans.” International students bring full-pay nonresident tuition, which helps to fund the education of Americans (in this case Californians). Given the level of state funding at this time, nonresident tuition dollars are a necessary part of the budget, in order for UC to educate the Californians enrolled.
I was answering the question why would international students travel all the way to attend Merced or Riverside?
According to many people here, Merced and Riverside are fantastic UC’s. If international students bring much needed money and diversity, which help raise prestige of the UCs, why not take more international students to lower ranked UCs and raise their prestige to same level as Cal and UCLA?
You’d be surprised to know, many foreign students enroll in universities like Tri-Valley University and community colleges - their goal is to come to USA, doesn’t matter which university.
The top universities in China, i.e. Tshinghua University and Peking University, and India, e.g. IIT’s, have hardly any foreign students, their priority is to educate their own citizens, then why should top US universities, specifically “public” universities e.g. Berkeley and UCLA, bend backwards to attract international students?
Like someone said, Cal and UCLA were prestigious academic institutions even pre-2007 when OOS/International students percentage was only 7%.
My suggestion is to bring in-state/out-of-state/international students ratio at Cal and UCLA to pre-2007 levels and if needed, admit more out-of-state/international students to Merced and Riverside
If we’ve reached a point where the suggestions and arguments being made (by multiple parties) are not even sincere and are being proposed only for rhetorical purposes or for laughs, maybe the thread needs to take a break.
First, I said “If I’m an International student…”. I have standards that go beyond some university that I had to actually google. Discovered there’s a university in Pleasanton, CA. Who knew? Never heard of it. And I’ve lived in the SF Bay Area a very long time.
I’m sure most OOS and International students have similar standards to mine as well. They’re more than likely not attending Merced, Riverside, “Tri something” in Pleasanton or CCC’s.
Second, please post the stats of these “magnets” of OOS and International students so I can be surprised. Without facts, saying it doesn’t make it true, though I’m sure a few may attend CCC’s or “Tri whatever it’s called.”
BTW, my D18 is taking two courses at a CCC this summer and she just had to prove her CA residency since she’s on a gap year working in another state. Roughly, the in-state CCC cost is $250 for these two courses. The OOS CCC cost is about $2,500. So it’s definitely not cheap to attend CCC’s as an OOS or International student. Not sure there are that many OOS/International students attending them.
I don’t know the rules of a US citizen attending universities in China or India. I’d think it’s extremely unlikely a potential US university student would go to China or India to be educated, unless one holds dual citizenship or has family living in those countries. We have the best universities here. And we’re a free country with low unemployment. People from around the world want to come here.
My friends and neighbors, who are of Indian descent, went to IIT, immigrated from India, but sent their kids to the Claremont 5 colleges in SoCal. They were both accepted to UCLA and Cal. They didn’t send them “back” to IIT, even though they have family back in India.
And we’ve had a huge influx of immigrants from India settle here in my neighborhood recently. The local public elementary and high schools schools, and universities like Cal and UCLA, are great. Plus, we have Google, Amazon, Meta, NetFlix, Apple, Intuit, Tesla, etc. here in SV.
We have a saying in our gym, “embrace the suck.” To me, venting about UC decisions seems like a waste of time and energy. “You” gotta move on. That’s my philosophy at least.
BTW, having been on this forum for years, this topic (admitting less OOS/International students to UC’s) has been discussed many, many times before.
Hope that clarifies that international students want to come to US regardless of which university admits them - so why waste admission spots at Cal and UCLA when there’s unfulfilled demand from CA residents?
When other countries are not as open and receptive to US students, why do the “public” US universities have to welcome so many international students when there’s unfulfilled demand from local Americans?
Pre-2007, UC’s had 7% cap on OOS/international students - ideally we should bring it back to that level, but even if we put a cap of 10%, that brings 25,000 OOS/international students in UC system, how’s that not enough for the “diversity” argument?
CA/UC’s need to fix their budgets so they are not dependent on foreign students for running our universities.
Given that you still haven’t answered my question above about why you seem hyperfocused on only 3 campuses within the system, can I assume that this is the unspoken answer? That you have judged UCLA, Cal and UCSD worthy (and in effect the others unworthy) due to “prestige”?
I can’t access either article, so nothing is “clarified.” News articles aren’t fact and are sensationalized for clicks. I asked for statistics, data.
What are we talking about anyway? A handful of International students that attend Tri-something university in Pleasanton, CA? The “best and the brightest” International students will always come to attend the UC’s.
“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.” Our friends and neighbors, who are of Indian descent, immigrated here for a better life. The husband tells me he came here with $20 in his pocket. My parents came here for a better life. That’s what makes the USA unique and great.
Would you want them to be more like say UMichigan which is roughly 52% in-state and 48% (+/-) OOS/International?
The UC’s are meeting the needs of ALL Californians with 9 UC’s, 23 CSU’s, including three Polytechnics, and 116 CCC’s.
CA has met our family’s higher education needs just fine. D18 will be taking two CCC courses for $250 (crazy cheap!) and D21 is attending Cal Poly SLO. I/we love CA. Wouldn’t live anywhere else.
Carry on with the “venting.” Changes absolutely nothing.
[quote=“sushiritto, post:1380, topic:3632418”]
I can’t access either article [/quote]
You can google and find your own statistics.
The people you’re referring to are graduate students who come on full financial aid from US colleges. They are not the ones paying the out-of-state tuition $$ that people in this forum are calling out is needed by UC’s to balance their budget.
It’s the “ultra rich” international students who can afford to pay $200k - $300k out of state tuition for undergraduate education, not the ones who come with $20 in pocket.
Please get your facts and statistics straight before putting counter-arguments.
I’m very happy that your D18’s needs are met by UC/CSU/CCC system. But you cannot make a blanket statement for “ALL” Californians as there’re many Californians whose needs are not being met by the UC system, and it’s OK if their needs are different than your needs.
Please understand that It’s OK to have a diversity of opinion!
Totally agree. People need to stop thinking that California only has Cal and UCLA! We have a wonderful and affordable community college system as well that the students are eligible to transfer to UCs and CSUs after completion of the required courses. I have no issue with 18% OOS acceptance and the holistic admission. My son was one of the 9% and we understood that he would get a seat at Merced or Riverside. Perhaps not his first choice, but it was guaranteed by the UC. So, the UC system has met its obligation to the top 9% of the CA high school students, IMO.
Here are some application numbers from the UCOP website regarding International/OOS applicants for 2023. Very few OOS/International applicants apply to UCM and UCR due to the costs and the so called lack of prestige (name recognition in their country) in comparison to UCLA and UCB. Even many CA residents look down upon the campuses. I have been following and contributing to CC for 13 years and time and time again, the majority of OOS/International students are not interested in these 2 campuses.
First Time Freshman:
Berkeley: CA Resident: 72656 OOS: 31309 International: 21909
Los Angeles: CA Resident: 90747 OOS: 33066 International: 22069
Merced: CA Resident: 21854 OOS: 1271 International: 2605
Riverside: CA Resident: 47823 OOS: 2807 International: 5832
For the OOS and International applicants to UCM and UCR, the admit rates are high. 2022 Data
UCM: 75% for OOS and 65% for International
UCR: 84% for OOS and 77% for International
But what is missing from your argument is the fact that accepting foreign students into the UCs not only benefits the foreign student, it benefits the entire the student body. My California student benefits from having people from other cultures and with diverse perspectives as part of her UC peer group. The university also potentially benefits if those students are super stars who go on to publish important research (with their UC affiliation by their name) or give high visibility presentations noting their UC affiliation. We all benefit from having great students representing different backgrounds and life experiences. It’s not just about giving a foreign student an education, it’s about enriching the educational experience of all students, including our in state students.
Only true if they are unwilling to settle for anything “less” than Cal and UCLA. If they apply to a wide variety of UCs and CSUs and are open to the CCC pathway to UC/CSU, they will have at least one viable option to achieve their educational goals through state-supported public resources.
You put forth the argument, not me. So the ball is on your court to support your argument with actual statistics. If you don’t want to support your argument, then that’s OK. The articles don’t tell me how many international students come HERE to attend our California universities, like Tri-something or our CA CC’s, which you asserted earlier.
There’s irony, you want facts and statistics from me? I gave you an anecdote of my neighbors and my facts are wrong. They’re not grad students. My neighbors are college grads from another country who came here for a better life, like other neighbors who recently moved here. No graduate degrees. Just families who come here from other countries to send their kids to our best colleges, in my neighbor’s case, the Claremont Colleges. Although as I said earlier, both kids were accepted to UCLA and Cal among other UC’s.
^^^This. Do a few international students come here to attend Tri/Pleasanton? Sure, maybe a handful. But as @Gumbymom points out above, the vast majority of International students come here to CA to attend the top UC’s or CSU’s. Those are statistics.
Venting is fine. But parochial “our people first, all the time” attitudes aren’t what made this country great and aren’t what made California great. An individual Californian can rant about how my kid has “taken” their spot at UCLA. But don’t try to extend an argument that says California should be more like Texas, India, or China and expect to be taken very seriously.
Agreed. I think California does an excellent job of ensuring access to higher education to ALL residents who want it. Not everyone will get their first choice, but they will have an opportunity, and often a fairly affordable one (and how great are the state financial aid programs like Cal grants and the Middle Class scholarship?). We have educational institutions where literally anyone can find a place and learn, and programs to make that financially possible (our local CC is FREE by the way, and often is able to even offer stipends to low income students - that is amazing!). But, sure, you may not get your first choice, you may not get what you think you “deserve,” but you will get access and opportunity. And that’s not true everywhere.
in Pleasanton or CCC’s.