<p>rlmdad- that’s just it: they stats don’t always correspond to an interesting and compelling app. And holistic is not merely objective. I think lots of people look at stats, then say, “oh, he was TS’d,” when they kid wasn’t wholly compelling in the first place. The whole app is critical. And, the kid’s “fit” matters.</p>
<p>The Franklin and Marshall position is strange to me because my son just received an email from them yesterday based on his very high PSAT score, so they proactively reach out to strong academic performers.</p>
<p>Westcoastmomof2- I’d be cautious of schools that send emails out. It has been said that many of these schools entice students by waiving application fees or essays. However, many of them may be looking at increasing their size of applications and increasing their selectivity by rejecting more kids. I have no hard proof of this other than the suspicions of others in this community. Good luck to your son wherever he goes.</p>
<p>[I was on a college tour a few years ago at some LACs like F&M and there was one young man who really stood out as being so condescending and disinterested that it was rude. He made it a point (I heard him twice) to let people know that this was his safety school and that he was applying to see if he could get the merit money, and some other remarks that were not ones to make on a college tour of a place. His dad echoed him but in a less condescending way. Yes, if I were the Adcom and I noted this sort of behavior, it would be a strike against him in the admissions process regardless of what his application quality. I noticed he went for an interview and wonder how that went. ]</p>
<p>I’ve often wondered at the motivations of parents and children who decide to apply to 10,12 even 20 universities. I think some of them must be doing it merely to stoke their egos (kids and parents). D had talked about applying to MIT. Great school, very difficult to get into, but not within her set perameters. I asked her if she were accepted would she attend. She replied she didn’t know. I told her that just to “see if you could” is a lousy reason to apply to a school.</p>
<p>Ten is the average for our high school. It’s because many families are in the middle zone financially where financial aid is not assured, but it’s not comfortable to be full-pay. There is a significant and unpredictable variety in the financial aid packages, especially where merit aid is concerned.</p>
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<p>I don’t know if I’d use the word “cautious,” but yes - lots of schools send flyers, emails, etc, without it directly relating to very much.</p>
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<p>Completely agree. Let’s not kid ourselves that schools are deliberately shooting themselves in the foot by wanting kids and not taking them to protect yield numbers. They’d still rather have the kids they want and have a few turn-downs, than the kids they don’t want. I don’t really think there is such a thing, except for arrogant CC posters who think that they “should have” been admitted to school X if they were admitted to a school that is higher on the USNWR food chain.</p>
<ul>
<li>and the FM article was published in 2001.<br>
Since the Common App cools are holistic, mind your whole app.</li>
</ul>
<p>For those of you who are avid readers and are even more curious about this topic, here are a few past threads on Tufts Syndrome:</p>
<p>Level of interest angle: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1363751-does-tufts-syndrome-still-exist-anywhere.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1363751-does-tufts-syndrome-still-exist-anywhere.html?</a></p>
<p>from the Tufts forum:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1226249-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1226249-tufts-syndrome.html?</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1124634-if-tufts-syndrome-doesnt-exist.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1124634-if-tufts-syndrome-doesnt-exist.html?</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/72457-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/72457-tufts-syndrome.html?</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/46266-whats-so-called-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/46266-whats-so-called-tufts-syndrome.html?</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1014194-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1014194-tufts-syndrome.html?</a></p>
<p>Hah, I like this line from the thread immediately above…
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<p>Boston College: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/701769-tufts-syndrome-yield-protection.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/701769-tufts-syndrome-yield-protection.html?</a>
WUSL: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/washington-university-st-louis/673276-how-much-does-tufts-syndrome-reputation-affect-future-applicants.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/washington-university-st-louis/673276-how-much-does-tufts-syndrome-reputation-affect-future-applicants.html?</a>
Notre Dame: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-notre-dame/1065204-does-notre-dame-have-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-notre-dame/1065204-does-notre-dame-have-tufts-syndrome.html?</a>
Swarthmore: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/893232-does-swarthmore-have-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/893232-does-swarthmore-have-tufts-syndrome.html?</a>
Emory: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/emory-university/922102-emory-tufts-syndrome.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/emory-university/922102-emory-tufts-syndrome.html?</a></p>
<p>another notable quote, Emory thread above:
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<p>Tufts syndrome does not exist. Tufts accepts the students it wants from a deep pool of highly qualified applicants, many of whom also apply to Ivies and other top schools. They examine applications thoroughly and holistically and admit a class of motivated, high-achieving students who all can contribute something to campus life. [Accepted</a> Student Profile Tufts University Admissions Department](<a href=“http://admissions.tufts.edu/apply/accepted-student-profile/]Accepted”>Accepted Student Profile | Tufts Admissions)
I know some people will never believe what I just said, but I felt the need to say it anyway. But it’s like trying to prove that Elvis is really dead and that UFO’s don’t exist.</p>
<p>The thing I am curious about is how did Tufts ever find itself identified with this “syndrome” when, as can be show from evidence above, it is believed that many other schools engage in the practice.</p>
<p>Some kids who apply to multiple schools do so not just to see if they’ll get in, or to stoke their egos with multiple acceptances, but out of fear they won’t get in anywhere. That was the case with me way back in 1980, when I applied to nine schools. I did get in to all of them, but felt only relief that I had a choice. I certainly didn’t brag about it.</p>
<p>My daughter, by contrast, started out with a list of 5 schools, none of which was a real safety. Two of the schools are reaches for anyone, so we were very nervous for her, even though her stats put her in the top quartile of accepted students even at her reach schools. </p>
<p>We had the sense that this whole admissions thing is a confusing game (and threads like these only reinforce our concerns), so we encouraged her to apply to a few more schools that really fall into the safety category. Although she had not visited these schools and thus could not really demonstrate interest (unless concerns about an unplanned gap year count as interest!), she did apply. None of this is about stoking her ego or intentionally playing a game. She just wants, as I did, to have a choice about where to go to college.</p>
<p>Completely agree. Let’s not kid ourselves that schools are deliberately shooting themselves in the foot by wanting kids and not taking them to protect yield numbers. They’d still rather have the kids they want and have a few turn-downs, than the kids they don’t want. I don’t really think there is such a thing, except for arrogant CC posters who think that they “should have” been admitted to school X if they were admitted to a school that is higher on the USNWR food chain. </p>
<p>This is pretty much Spot On. In the current world, the Tufts Syndrome is a fallacy for Tufts…but it sounds like not for other schools. One thing that is true, the Tufts Syndrome lives on CC!</p>
<p>schools should also tighten up on the bottom end of acceptances. not just on the top end.
bring the yield up and avg. student quality up too. ( for those schools who want to play the game)</p>
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<p>Not necessarily. In my son’s case , he applied to 10 schools, 3 safeties, 2 mid range and 5 Ivy and Ivy-ish with low acceptance rates. The three safeties offer different levels of merit money and he felt he could be happy at any of them. The two mid ranges appear to be solid choices based on Naviance and they have a strong program in his major. The remaining five are crapshoots. He is a BWRK with solid grades, test scores and ECs but who knows when you have schools with acceptance rates in the single digits or low teens. Not ego driven at all but practical risk-reward decision. He’ll never know if he would have gotten into the schools unless he applied, so he did…We’ll see the results in late March.
Edit- I just reread your post and I’m sure for some it is ego, but I think there are many with the same rationale as us…</p>
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<p>Oh, it does exist, maybe not at Tufts anymore but there are several schools where highly qualified candidates get waitlisted. Could it be that they didn’t express interest signalling the adcom that it was a safety?? In the age of US News ratings and yield percentage, it is out there…Look at the few schools that don’t provide Common Data Set numbers. Could it be because they waitlist so many? PM me if you can’t figure out the school the referring to…
Disclaimer- I am Tufts graduate for grad school so I have a love for the school but the term has morphed to include the whole concept of yield protection, not just in Medford, unfortunately.</p>
<p>I find Tufts’ denial that it does this credible. That doesn’t mean that no schools do it, however.</p>
<p>You’re confusing “displaying interest” with producing a solid app package that speaks to them on a deeper and broader basis than just your stats tier. The app is where the rubber hits the road. </p>
<p>Of course, many colleges will want the best kids they can get, per what they want and what they can offer them in facilities, opps, etc. But the story doesn’t end with admitting them. A chunk of those won’t matriculate. If you could anticipate that, why not factor it in? [adding: especially when the kid’s app doesn’t show much knowledge of- or commitment to- that college?]</p>
<p>When you see a top STEM kid, eg, with tons of relevant, responsible experience- do you think a small LAC with ok lab facilities, limited truly cutting edge sci, fewer connections to internships or jobs- do you really think that school will fit him well? And will rush to admit him because, after all, he’s a “top kid?” Or- that they will weigh the interests of both sides. In the yield discussion, don’t forget freshman retention and transfer rates. Waitlist, transfers, etc- are a huge headache to colleges.</p>
<p>Tufts is a great school. Not the right fit for everyone, but so be it. The syndrome started with the fact that they are lttle sister to the two big brothers in town. (Not their supposed reject policy.) The omnipresent question: well, why didn’t you go to H? Or the assumption the kid didn’t get into H. How long do you suppose Tufts, itself, has been aware of this and fighting it?</p>
<p>The internet access to info (and a school’s ability to spread info) helps. Northeastern, BU, BC, etc- have all done a lot of work to get past the H/M thing, distinguish their own attractions, draw their own attention for their own strengths.</p>
<p>I’m with jandgdad on this one. Each of my sons applied to over a dozen schools. With our first S, we simply did not know where he would be accepted. With his ranking, scores, and ECs we thought he might get in but it is always a crapshoot when applying to Stanford, Cornell, and CalTech. He was just wanting one acceptance from those and thought he might not get into any of them. Three other schools offered full rides so he applied to them as his safety. He then applied to some other reach schools just in case. When he was accepted at all of his schools, we were amazed at the range of scholarship offers he had. It went from full ride to paying $50K a year.</p>
<p>The next year, my younger S graduated with almost identical stats. We knew financial packages would vary greatly and so once again he applied to schools with scholarship offers, some safety schools and some reach schools. Most of his schools were different than my previous son so we knew did not know what these new schools would offer. With this in mind, I didn’t mind paying application fees since they could very well save some money in the future. I wouldn’t pay an extra $400-$500 in app fees just to honk my own horn and brag about my kids.</p>