<p>This really bothers me. I will admit to a mild, lingering prejudice against universities affiliated with religious groups, and a story like this really fuels it. </p>
<p>Villanova has every right to refuse sanction to speakers who do not reflect its "Catholic and Augustinian values and mission." But then I have every right not to take it seriously as a university, because it sure isn't reflecting my educational values. Especially when those Catholic and Augustinian values are applied selectively and politically, and seem to reflect a concern with the identity of the speaker rather than the actual program he was asked to lead. And then there's the stonewall about why the university cancelled this particular program at the highest level, and at the last minute. </p>
<p>Which Catholic and Augustinian values and mission were in play? Why aren't they at least taking responsibility for explaining their value judgments and censorship principles? I don't trust this university.</p>
<p>Well, part of the workshop is some simulated graphic sex…and second ,and not that i agree, Catholic doctrine does not accept the gay lfestyle…So for a Catholic or Augusitian school to decide against having this on their campus shouldn’t be a surprise, not unlike those type schools not accepting the proposed law regarding contraception payments for employees…Once again, don’t necessarliy agree,but it is against the Church’s principles…</p>
<p>Especially when those Catholic and Augustinian values are applied selectively and politically, and seem to reflect a concern with the identity of the speaker rather than the actual program he was asked to lead.</p>
<p>“But then I have every right not to take it seriously as a university”</p>
<p>That’s the part I agree with, because they are limiting what ideas can be explored.</p>
<p>Marquette had a similiar situation a couple years ago when an offer to a gay professor to be Dean of Arts and Sciences was withdrawn by the university president after she had accepted it. According to the president it wasn’t because she was gay but because of some of the academic articles she had written previously on gay marriage and sex that didn’t match Marquette’s values.</p>
<p>The thing is, our great Catholic universities – I’m thinking of Georgetown, BC, Notre Dame, Holy Cross, and many others – are admirable in so many respects. Many non-Catholics choose to be educated there, and most of the discussion on CC starts from a premise that they are indistinguishable from secular universities. Honestly, that is the point of view I try to maintain on CC, even though neither of my kids so much as visited a Catholic (or other religious) university, and I breathed a quiet sigh of relief about that. But then they do something like this, and they lose my goodwill.</p>
<p>And that goes in spades for non-Catholic religious universities, including places like Pepperdine, Yeshiva, and the recently-much-discussed Baylor, all of which start out for me with more of a load of suspicion than Villanova or Georgetown. (I may have to make exceptions, though, for Quaker institutions, and maybe a college like Davidson where the religious connection is so attenuated as to be practically invisible.)</p>
<p>By the way, if you read the article it’s clear that the performance artist in question does NOT include simulated sex acts in the workshops he holds on college campuses, or anything like that. They are included in other performance pieces in other venues. This isn’t equivalent to, say, refusing to display Robert Mapplethorpe photographs of gay S&M in your art museum; it’s refusing to display Mapplethorpe flowers or portraits because he also is known for photographing S&M. I have a hard time reconciling that with my educational values.</p>
<p>JHS, while i do 't agree with a lot of things the Catholic Church does( am a practicing Catholic) i do believe 100% that they have every right to uphold the values of the Catholic Church…if one attends a Catholic institution and is surprised by anythng like this is clearly not aware of the school they have chosen</p>
<p>What’s so irratating is the hypocrisy of the catholic leadership. If they had stood up for all the rape victims in their congregations, and I am talking about the children this might not be so blatantly a flapping of their wings. But as they turned a blind eye, covered for deviants for decades, their so called piety now is laughable.</p>
<p>Seahorse, there is no question what you sayis correct.BUT, in regards to what the Church supports, it clear that the Artist Workshop does not fit those beliefs…</p>
<p>What beliefs? As a so called former catholic, I see the church believes in hiding pedophiles and rapists, but a bit of questionable art is a big no no. If the school really believed in wha t they are trying to preach here, they would tell the bishops and cardinals to step up and admit fully their failings when it comes to women and children. Instead of this lipstick on a pig type of protecting the churches teachings</p>
<p>Seahorse, you need to step back,and realize it is the message and not the messenger…i don’t like what the Church officials are doing with the pedophiles at all, but the Pedophiles are only delivering the word,though they are hypocrites…and while i understand what Villanova is doing,i don’t necessarily agree with it 100%, BUT it is a Catholic/Augustinian school…</p>
<p>qdogpa: I agree fully with you that a Catholic institution has the right to uphold the values of the Church. (Note that Villanova itself is run by the Augustinian monastic order, not by the Catholic Church itself.) Just as Oral Roberts University has the right to uphold the values of Oral Roberts, whatever they are.</p>
<p>The question is whether those values produce an institution that is of interest to people who are not Catholics and/or don’t see an advantage for them in having those values imposed on them in a limiting way. Both implicitly and explicitly, Catholic universities regularly claim that a great Catholic university is a great university, and that Catholic values are supportive of, and not in conflict with, educational values and critical thinking. In theory, I don’t see why that couldn’t be the case. But if this is an example of how it works in practice . . . then I ain’t buying it.</p>
<p>Somewhat (not entirely) separately, you say “it is clear that the Artist Workshop does not fit those beliefs.” As I read the story, that is completely not clear. I would be much less troubled if it were clear. For example, although I believe strongly in a woman’s right to choose abortion, I would not mind if Villanova refused to sanction a training session for lay abortion providers. I recognize that would be contrary to its values. I have a great deal more trouble if it refused to allow speakers to present the case for freedom of choice in civil society, or to debate the history of canon law regarding abortion. And I would go nuts if it refused, say, to let a government official talk about greenhouse gas regulation because he was pro-choice. And (at least as described in the article), banning the workshop in question looks like it is in that third category, or somewhere between the second and the third.</p>
<p>JHS, the fact that it is a Catholic /Augustinian school DOES matter,yes, they all pontificate how all are accepted and welcome, and this is true…But the principles of the faith overide…</p>
<p>For the rcord my D1 attends Villanova. ;). And D2 is waiting to hear…</p>
<p>Villanova did the right thing in canceling this event. What is surprising is that it was ever scheduled to begin with. What was that professor thinking? That she could invite a “performance artist” whose shows include simulated sex and nudity (never mind that the so-called “artist” is openly contemptuous of Catholic teachings), and no one would find out about it?</p>
<p>This topic is fascinating. My D went to an accepted students day at Villanova last year. We were amazed at the sense of welcome and community. We are Christian, but not Catholic, and specifically inquired about the religious aspects of the school. We were so impressed with the Augustinian values (“to nurture a concern for the common good and who share an enthusiasm for the challenge of responsible and productive citizenship in order to build a just and peaceful world”) evidenced to us. The professors were helpful, the administration was welcoming, and the students appeared to have a desire to give back. D ended up elsewhere for a specific program, but I am hoping the younger kid will have the opportunity to go there.<br>
I see both sides of the artist situation. It raises some questions. But, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I trust it was well considered and a difficult decision.</p>
<p>Who cares whatever the Catholic church does in respect to cancelling the event? I definitely don’t support how the Catholic church has dealt with its priests molesting children. But that doesn’t mean it needs to support anything else either. While I don’t really have a strong opinion on whether the Artists’ Workshop should be held or not, I do think it’s within a university’s rights to cancel whatever they deem to not be in alignment with their values. And besides, I don’t think that anyone from Villanova had anything to do with child abuse.</p>
<p>I’ve had many years to think about this. One of the schools on your list has an excellent program in one of my childrens area of interest. He applied and was offered a full scholarship, with extra goodies. They called and called him. They told my husband that was their very best award and they really wanted our child. This child is gay. Neither husband nor I wanted him at a Catholic school. We didn’t veto any colleges to which he wanted to apply but did discuss our reservations. Neither of us (husband raised Catholic) believe the Catholic Church is a good place to raise a potentially gay child. And we don’t believe a Catholic university is currently a healthy environment for a gay undergraduate. Our son did not choose to attend the Catholic university. Of course, there were also non-Catholic universities he received scholarship offers from that gave me nightmares and which I was also very relieved he didn’t attend.</p>
<p>edit: of course the Church wasn’t always what it is today. John Boswell, before his much too early death, had begun some very fascinating research.</p>
I would say that this quote pretty much encapsulates why I doubt the educational bona fides of Catholic institutions. What are all those quotations marks doing around the word artist? Certainly none of sex, nudity, or contempt for Catholic doctrine are incompatible with art; indeed they are pretty mainstream as the subject of art for the past few centuries (longer, in the case of sex and nudity). </p>
<p>Is it the simulated sex that’s the problem? Somehow, I think the real thing would not be less objectionable. </p>
<p>However, in this case it’s clear that the planned workshop would not involve sex (simulated or real), nudity (ditto), OR contempt for Catholic doctrine, at least not on the part of the speaker. </p>
<p>It boils down to sheer rejection of anyone who does not hew the Catholic line. Not reasoned debate, not loving explanation of the moral and spiritual issues, just anti-intellectual, thoughtless calumny and marginalization. That’s not what I think of as the Catholic intellectual tradition, but it seems to be where Villanova is. That’s fine, but it is considerably diminished, at least in my eyes.</p>
<p>Things have changed pretty quickly imho. In the 70s I had classmates from HS & college who became radical feminist nuns in South America. I wonder what has happened to them. I may need to attend a reunion.</p>