My kids started junior year at high school and we are planning to visit few colleges.
What’s the best time to do this and what day should we pick up for this visit? Open house or some other day? We want to visit and get info about specific college school in addition to just general college tour.
Most important how can I get reliable info about fundamental college and school performance data:
graduation rate and median time to graduate
graduates' earnings in the first job after graduation and 3, 5 and more years after graduation
what companies recruit on campus both graduates and for internships
what are internship opportunities during entire four years of school
Go on a weekday, while the college is in session, to see the school “in action.” You don’t have to go to a designated open house. Look at each school’s schedule of information sessions and tours. Make sure to register if the college requires it.
The college does not perform—the students perform.
You can find the percentage of students who graduate in six years on the Common Data Set (CDS) of any school. Just google the name of the college with ‘CDS’. Graduates’ earnings is not a good way to judge a school. That’s because it depends on a) what type of career fields the students chose to pursue, and b) the proportion of students who pursue graduate school. If the college has an engineering program, the number will skew higher. If it has a teaching or social work program, the numbers will skew lower. If a large percentage go to grad school law school, medical school, etc., the numbers will skew low. The college does not manufacture a high-earning student.
Recruitment and internship info should be available from the career office.
Look at the visit calendar for each school on your child’s list. Some schools don’t do visits on certain days (learned that the hard way). We tried to do the general info session/tour in the morning and then program specific tours and talking to profs in the afternoon. For the top choices, my daughter went back and sat in on classes.
As stated above, the CDS has the graduation rates. Be sure to talk to the school’s themselves though because if many kids co-op, the graduation rate will look higher.
Most schools have a career services center website that will list starting salaries, talk about job fairs, internships, top employers, etc…
Does CDS break down data by school and preferably by major? I am not interested in college average since obviously whose who graduated from school of engineering will have higher earnings than those who graduated from school of social studies.
I am trying to estimate value of specific schools that my kids are considering. The cost for different school varies substantially so is the value. But the premium that some schools are demanding over others may or may not be worth incremental value they provide.
For graduation rates, loan amounts, breakdown of majors, academic statistics of students, the college’s Common Data Set as the other poster states, is a reliable source. As stated, Google the college’s name and “CDS”.
For companies recruiting on campus, you have to look at the individual college’s website, most have a career development office or page listing “Student Outcomes” or similar that lists this information.
If paying for school is an issue, there are certainly schools that offer enough aid (both need-based and/or merit-based) to make paying for school less painful. You can see the percentage of students receiving each type of aid in the CDS. We eliminated schools that do not give significant amounts of merit aid, as that was a deciding factor in affordability for us. You can apply that data as needed to your own situation.
Every school has a Net Price Calculator somewhere on their website. This may give an idea of the actual cost of a degree vs. the “sticker price” It is not accurate to compare “sticker price” across colleges.
Is your child thinking about a field that may require graduate school? In that case, limiting or eliminating debt from an undergrad degree will be even more important than any “prestige” from an undergrad degree, since the graduate degree will be the one used in an eventual job search.
Other things to consider could be who is teaching classes–in larger universities, TAs may be teaching many lower-level classes, while many smaller colleges pride themselves on professors teaching every class. This could factor into your “value” equation as well.
There is a college ranking that uses with alumni data and interviews (outcomes as well as college experience). You can get more info at https://www.alumnifactor.com/ This may help you find the type of info you are looking for.
For my younger DD, I took her to a Big state U and a smaller state college during fall break, to get a feel for what she likes in size. Then We went during spring break Junior year and toured a bunch of schools.
Not only do TA’s teach classes…do Adjunct professors or full time professors.
If your student plans to be a passive consumer of college, then any college is of minimal value to that student. A college does not “provide” value. The student must seek out and capitalize on what a college has to offer. You are really barking up the wrong tree. This is not like buying a a refrigerator that is more expensive but may save you on energy costs.
The “value” in going to college is in becoming an educated human and a fully participating, enlightened member of society. The value of a college is not measured in how much money you make. Besides, it’s not a simple input/output equation. If it were, then every individual who graduated from the same college in the same major would be earning the exact same thing every year for the rest of their lives.
OP - Some schools do a great job of separating out information by major, other’s not so much. You need to do some digging and if the information isn’t there, have your student contact the school to see if they will make it available.
Non-monetary factors aside the value of college is the cost I will be paying for college related to my kid’s expected lifetime earnings. I understand that the cost I will be paying is different than sticker price.
I don’t know if my my kids will pursue master degrees. This is another factor to consider: if master degree in their majors is a must this effectively adds to the cost and needs to be factored when calculating value.
We could probably afford any college with loans and more expensive college may be justified if it adds substantial value in terms of career advancement and earnings potential.
Medical schools at top universities cost hundreds of thousands of dollars but average anesthesiologist who graduated from these schools earns more than $1mil a year so this cost is justified.
At this point I am trying to get most reliable info on cost vs potential for different colleges so we can consider them among other factors when finally decide what college to apply into.
For engineering majors, you can find data about the colleges and individual majors at the link below. You might find more data if you look at the year 2016. First, search for your preferred college. Then, on the left you’ll see a section for “Undergraduate.” If you click on “Program Comparisons” you will see the average time it takes to complete a 4 year program.
How do you KNOW you won’t be paying sticker price? Are you low income with kids applying to colleges that guarantee to meet full need? Are your kids applying to colleges with guaranteed merit aid for their stats?
I have to say…the Thumper family set a budget for college…and it had NOTHING to do whatsoever with the anticipated lifetime earnings of the student…which also can NOT be predicted. How do you know what your kid will be earning? Are you also planning to choose your kid’s major and where he or she gets a job?
What happens if your kiddo decides to pursue working at lower income job after you spend a lot of money on some special college or degree? You know…that could happen.
It sounds like you are willing to pay for some colleges over others because of a perception of either prestige, or their ability to somehow give YOU a ROI in the future.
If the money for EACH kid is enough to pay for that instate public…it’s VERY probable that you WILL be paying sticker price.
And unless the OOS publics or private schools meet full need guaranteed (and they calculate you have need)…or your kid gets merit…you could be paying full sticker there too.
So you believe the purpose of college is to prepare to earn as much as possible? I just read an article discussing the huge shortage of airplane mechanics. After FREE training, they start at $70,000 and excellent benefits. By the time they’re 40, they can be making $200k+ (with over time) plus a great pension and health insurance—and no college investment. Seems like a great ROI.
But seriously, you need to manage your own expectations. There is no possible way to predict lifetime earnings. And as far calculating the cost of a masters into the equation … ya know, students change their minds all the time. They start as one major then because of exposure to something new, they change to a different major. Or they decide four years after graduation and working in finance that they want to be a public school math teacher. Or they leave the workforce to take care of children or elderly parents.
You are trying to apply science to something that is more of an art.
@brantly - I am an aerospace engineer and I have owned three aircraft. As an aircraft owner I do business with aircraft mechanics, and I am familiar with the training they need to go through and to a certain extent their salaries. Aircraft mechanics (officially, Airframe and Powerplant (A&P) Mechanics, as termed by their FAA license) rarely make $200k a year and do not start out at $70K in most cases. Firstly, the training in general is not free. Most licensed A&P mechanics train in a commercial aviation technician school. To sit for the four written and practical exams required to earn an A&P license, one must take a formal course which generally requires 2 1/2 years. Another route is to be an apprentice to a licensed mechanic, who is willing to train the person. The apprenticeship usually requires at least two years. In this case, the training may be free but that is the exception today. If one is fortunate to be hired as an apprentice by an airline, perhaps he/she can get free training and an entry level airline maintenance job, but again, that is the exception. Most commercial aviation technician schools have tuition comparable to private colleges. Another option is to join the military and be trained as an aircraft mechanic, but one still must sit for the FAA exams.
Most newly licensed aircraft mechanics start out in general aviation maintaining light, piston/propeller single and twin engine aircraft for small flight schools and charter operators. This is the low end of the mechanic pay scale, with an average salary of $42k. Airlines and corporate jet operators pay more, and those can possibly yield six figures, but that is the high end of the salary range after say 10-20 years of experience.
The director of aviation - who is a pilot and a mechanic trained in the Air Force - of my Fortune 500 employer makes about $140k a year. That’s a good salary and he doesn’t work on the corporate jets himself, rather, he manages those that do but it took him some 22 years to get to that position from an entry level mechanic starting out at $45k a year or so.
I don’t know where you got your data from, but aircraft mechanic is not an easy road - while you don’t have to go to college you do have to have an aptitude for mechanical and technical work, and be willing to commit the time and finances needed to obtain the training and after that, be willing to work your way up the pay scale which is a slow process. Many airlines by the way outsource their maintenance to third party shops some of which are offshore, which has a negative impact on salaries in general.
I have only done a couple of college tours but my advice is
Spend a significant amount of time on the website. It has loads of information that you should have before you visit. Example: How many undergraduates are there here?
Make sure that your timing is such that you get a feel of Campus life. Don’t visit on a Saturday as the Campus is pretty much dead.
Understand before going what you want to get out of the visit. Try not to give any weight to superfluous things : weather, how informed your guide is etc
Your visit should focus on the vibe of the school.
Anesthesiologist today make much less than 1 million. Average is at least half of this and in some areas of the country a quarter of this. Just saying. Salaries continue to drop over the past decade.
I don’t think looking at average salaries is terribly helpful. I remember going to a presentation at accepted students weekend for Carnegie Mellon’s CS school. The salary range (2007) was from something like $25,000 to over $100,000. The low guy wanted to go back to his home town in Idaho and ended up teaching high school, the highest guys were working on Wall Street. The next highest guys were working for the big CS firms. No one could predict where you’d end up. A career office that will give you more of a breakdown will be more helpful that some average number.
We did most of our visits when our school had vacations (winter break, spring break), but the corresponding college was still in session. Try to avoid Fridays, at many schools that’s already the weekend!
Our school, and I’m sure many others, have college reps visit the school. At our school that’s just began this week . To me that’s a start especially if the school is not in the area. We are in Illinois so its not easy to go visit Duke for example.