<p>Both Southern. Both academically awesome. Both great party scenes. Both accepted me.</p>
<p>So the deal is: other than the urban/rural thing, why is W&L better?</p>
<p>(I'm thinking history or polisci and then going on to law school.)</p>
<p>If you are interested in politics, I recommend you research W&L's Washington Term Program - where you get credit for taking a spring term and interning in Washington (and major assistance in finding and landing the internship) as well as W&L's Mock Convention, which has an incredible prediction success rate, has parts televised by many major news stations as well as gavel to gavel coverage on C-SPAN, attracts many high profile speakers, and is probably one of the most famous election year college events in the nation.</p>
<p>On the Vanderbilt board, someone who turned down W&L for Vandy had this to say:</p>
<p>"I also applied and was accepted at both schools, so I'll try my best to give you my perspective.</p>
<p>"Both Southern" I would say that W&L is a bit more "southern" than Vanderbilt. When I stayed there, it seemed like a lot of people fit the southern image while at Vandy, there certainly is that group of people but a lot of other types as well.</p>
<p>"Both academically awesome" Very true, although I would say that Vanderbilt has more national name recognition. For history or polisci and prelaw, I would say that either school is superb. Vanderbilt has a great internship program with The Washington Center in DC and also one with the Tennessee State Legislature.</p>
<p>"Great party scenes" For sure</p>
<p>The main difference for me between W&L and Vandy really boils down to breadth of opportunities. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Academics
Vanderbilt is a school with phenomenal programs in nearly every department, while you don't really hear of very many people going to W&L to get into a really good med school, as an example. Don't get me wrong, I think W&L is a great school (among my top choices), but I think Vanderbilt would provide a more balanced and broader education. </p></li>
<li><p>Social Life
Both are known, at least in part, as party schools. I think the main difference arises from the level of involvement in Greek life. Vanderbilt has only about 50% in sororities and 35% in frats compared to the ~80+% at W&L. Also, I'm not sure how it works at W&L, but at Vandy only the top 6 officers of a chapter live in the house, so the Greeks and the independents are more integrated, giving a nice balance. And, even though you said not to go into it, the urban/rural thing really is important. Lexington is, what, 7,000 people including W&L and the military institute? College is great and all, but sometimes you just have to get off campus and go do something else. Vanderbilt is an island in downtown Nasvhille, which means that if you are sick of frat parties, you can go to a club; if you want to volunteer at daily bread, well it's just a five minute walk; you want to go to the mall, 10 minute drive; want to see ben folds perform, 15 minutes away. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Another thing about social life that drew me more to Vanderbilt than W&L is size. At about 6,400 undergrads, I think Vandy is the perfect size - plenty of people to share interests with and to meet throughout all four years. W&L, at less than 2,000 total seemed more like high school to me, where everyone would know everyone's business. Just a personal choice which you like better.</p>
<p>In the end, it all comes down to which one you feel would be a better fit. Both are very good schools, but I think Vandy offers more balance, breadth, and choices in both academics and social life than does W&L."</p>
<p>Dima?</p>
<p>The poster has a few mistakes, which I will correct, but some of his/her information is right:</p>
<p>In terms of W&L being more Southern, I think the only thing more Southern about W&L is its reputation. To start, about 5% (100 kids) here are international students. W&L students represent 48 states (North Dakota and Wyoming are the holdouts) plus DC and 37 different countries. The most represnted states here (over 100 students) are, in order:
Virginia (though at 14%, much less in-staters than most schools)
Maryland
Texas
Georgia
New Jersey
Pennsylvania</p>
<p>Out of those schools, only Georgia and Texas are the true South and the North is well represented (New York would be next on the list) and about 20% of students are from the New York-New Jersey - Connecticut - Pennsylvania area. I don't see how that is so Southern.</p>
<p>I would disagree completely about the academics. His quote about the med schools is just plain wrong - W&L has a top med school acceptance rate almost three times the national average (compare 84% to 33%). Professors at W&L are not only amazing and every bit as good as those at Vandy, but they care. Professors at major universities tend to place a lot of emphasis on graduate students, to the detriment of undergrads. Look at all the things I say about professors being accessible and caring on the "pros/cons" thread, you find very few of those at the bigger universities with big graduate programs. Also, you could be sure that all your papers and essays will be graded by your professors and all your questions will be answered by professors, not by graduate students. I have friends at Ivy's complaining that the grad student that graded their test doesn't speak english well. Also, ask on the Vandy board how often it is that freshmen spend their summers researching with professors. At bigger universities, professors research with grad students and sometimes upperclassmen. At W&L, everyone gets a chance to do research and I know freshmen who will be spending the summer in Lex doing research in fields from biology to math to politics. Finally, the simple fact that W&L is a Liberal Arts College means that it offers and requires you to get a more thorough and balanced education in a variety of fields, that is the hallmark of LAC's. So I would disagree completely with the posters statements about academics.</p>
<p>The comments on social life are much closer to the truth. Both schools are known as party schools and Greek Life at W&L is more inclusive and broad, at 83% for men and 76% for women. But it means just that: that Greeks at W&L are friendly, welcoming and inclusive, not elitists who look down on everyone else. In terms of who lives in the house, freshmen all live in freshmen dorms so when you make friends freshmen year, everyone is integrated. Junior and senior year, people live off campus and different Greeks and independents are mixed. Sophomore girls can't all fit in the srats (there are only 5 srats with houses) so most of them live in upperclass dorms and intermingle with each other and independents. The only exception is sophomore guys - who live at the frat houses.</p>
<p>Lexington is 7,000 people not including the schools I believe, I could be wrong here though. And this may just be because I am a New Yorker, but I will take the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia over downtown Nashville any day of the week. No offense to Nashville, but their nightclubs aren't exactly amazing (again, this may be because I'm from NYC and have high standards) and the DJ's and the bands the fraternties bring in are probably at least as good. If you want to volunteer, there are infinite opportunties in town and in the county. If you're into hiking, biking, fishing, or pretty much any outdoor activity, Lexington is an amazing place to be and our outing club is huge and absolutely amazing. If you want to see a concert, there are plenty of people who do as well and love to road trip to Charlottesville, Roanoke, UVA and WVU (all an hour away) to see top bands.</p>
<p>If you can't live without a mall, go to Vandy. That's just one thing W&L can't compete with.</p>
<p>I agree that the size difference is important. My high school had 3,200 kids in four grades and I got sick of it. I hated not being able to get into classes, my advisor having a ton of other advisees to deal with, my teachers not knowing me personally. There were kids walking across the stage during graduation and I did not know their names and I hated that. I simply can't stand the unanimity of larger schools. I want to know the students in my classes and I want to know my professors, I feel I learn better that way and enjoy myself more that way. I know I enjoy watching sports games more when I know many people on the team. It gives you more reason to cheer. (I prefer that to having a Div I team, because I feel like if I want to watch a team on TV full of people I don't really know but that represent me, I'm just going to watch professional sports; when I watch school sports, I do it because I can really root for my friends) But, like the Vandy poster says, it's a personal choice. Clearly, he/she doesn't agree with me and prefers a bigger school.</p>
<p>In the end, it does come down to which one you feel would be a better fit, and I recommend overnight visits to both if possible. They are both very good schools, and you will get balance, breadth, and choices in academics and social life at both schools (many people don't realize how different the frats are from each other and that each one is a completely different experience, they also don't realize that there is social life outside of frats at W&L, when there is plenty). My opinion is that if you want a friendly, supportive, and trustf ul (this one is a big deal here, though the filter apparently considers it a curse) community - W&L is a good choice. If you prefer to be just another number (that is what I didn't like about being at a big HS) and fade into the crown, go to a bigger school.</p>
<p>EDIT: I just read the Vandy forum and saw that the poster was slipstream. He is a great guy, who I definitely respect, and he was very active on this forum last year. He was an Honors Scholar but unfortunately didn't get the money to attend W&L and those of us who were active here last year wish he did, but I'm glad he's happy at Vandy and even though I disagree with him in several cases, he knows what he's talking about and I definitely respect him.</p>
<p>I found this comparison and thought it deserved to be brought back to life.</p>
<p>This is the debate raging in the house! And it's a barn burner. ED decision time is 5 days away for HS. ach!</p>
<p>Also to consider is what is listed on the common data set as considerations for admission. Vandy has tossed out the baby with the bathwater--legacies don't count for anything. I won't even get started on this one because it just makes me angry. W&L still has geographical location and interview.</p>
<p>It's great to have two schools from which to pick from but it's a weighty decision for all involved. Family input in our household is a big consideration even tho the HS says it's his decision.</p>
<p>Musictoad, I can assure you that the academics at W&L are incredible. My initial thought after ONE day of class with my professors - "Wow, my high school teachers were terrible!" The is simply faculty amazing. At what other university does a department head teach an intro class to 19 students? </p>
<p>Speaking of size, my largest class has 20 students. I went to a large public high school where having classes of 35+ was the norm. Kids would share desks, and it was awful. At W&L, all of my professors know my name, and I am easily able to talk to them anytime.</p>
<p>As per the social scene, both W&L and Vandy are full of students who know how to have a good time. At W&L, one can have fun safely. I don't know about Vanderbilt; I'm not much of a city person.</p>
<p>I applied to Washington and Lee regular decision. I'll admit I had my qualms about coming to W&L over everywhere else I was admitted (Vandy was on that list), but in retrospect, I can gaurentee you that this university is absolutely the right place for me.</p>
<p>Truthfully, with the whole Vandy v. W&L debate, if admitted, you can't lose. Both schools are great. I don't know any numbers, but I would suspect Vanderbilt is a top cross-applicant school with W&L come regular decision. Good luck with your (kid's?) decision.</p>
<p>I am a true believer in the "gut check" school of college selection. I've seen it work over and over through the years, from my own experience in the Olden Days to my son's experience at W&L. So stop listening to the "raging debate" and listen for what your heart is saying to you -- and if there is no clear answer, are you ready for ED? </p>
<p>There's nothing wrong with taking some more time to fall in love with one or the other, esp when you use that time to visit and learn more. I watched my son go through his senior year last year -- he did not apply ED. What he learned from Oct to March, both about schools to which he applied (and was admitted, incl Vandy) and about himself, led him to a strong conclusion -- in Feb -- that W&L is best for him. </p>
<p>I picked him up last night for fall break. With a huge smile on his face, he hopped into the car and announced that he's "livin' the dream." I believe that's because W&L is HIS choice -- not mine or his father's or his brother's or his college counselor's or his best friend's or . . . . </p>
<p>What's yours?</p>
<p>i wanted to have S determine out his reasons for choosing one great alternative over the other and make him think. i played the grilling DA. the other big concern is from the significant other who was worried about not being able to hop in a car and visit or get somewhere in five hours if needed. His HS gc also wanted to know the reasons for the change and wanted valid solid points before feeling comfortable with the change in choice.</p>
<p>Consensus finally obtained and ED seems a fine route to try and gain admission. His reasoning is rock solid. We'll see if he gets in. I hope fortune smiles his way.</p>
<p>You can't ask for more than that - being able to articulate reasons under "cross-examination" is a great indication that he's ready for ED. Best wishes for acceptance!</p>
<p>Just to add another personal experience to the discussion....we brought our freshman son home from W&L for reading days this past weekend and without any prompting by us, he let his mom know that he felt he had picked out a college that was a perfect fit! Kind of makes all of those days/hours driving up and down the east coast looking at colleges seem worth the effort. The only problem we seem to have is that our daughter who is a 3rd year at UVA is still wondering if she should have gone to W&L instead.</p>
<p>Maybe she can go there for law school if that's her field of interest.</p>
<p>My D stayed over reading days because her sport had a competititon. She said it was a lot of fun, almost like pre-orientation when only the teams and the Habitat kids were there.</p>