@Steglitz90 I do think it’s largely a matter of unmanageable volume, but regarding the specific instances you mentioned, I don’t get the impression that colleges consider unrecorded visits prior to junior year a significant sign of interest, and lots don’t factor legacy in unless it’s a parent, if that.
My D has now been accepted to 3 schools RD (1 a top choice) waitlisted to 4 (she is declining a place on all waitlists) and denied at 1 high reach. She has 2 more schools to go–1 where she is a strong legacy and 1 another high reach. She was accepted to her top choice that is allegedly a harder admit than some of the places she was waitlisted. However, she poured her heart and soul into that application and always felt it was the best fit for her. Now we hope that school comes through with some $$. Some of the schools take such large numbers ED they have to WL almost everyone else RD.
When visiting schools my kid and I spent more time looking for a safety that my kid actually liked and would be happy at, than looking at high match/reach schools. This is the fatal mistake people make… They hate their safeties (or can’t afford them).
And what I can’t understand is the volume of people on this site and others that I know that are accepted at their safety in December but still apply to many other safety or match schools that they have no intention of attending if they were to be accepted. Why throw your money away and waste time? Reaches is one thing but safeties and matches? Find two safeties you like and if possible apply early to them.My kid’s app list included 2 “well liked” safeties (EA, accepted mid December), 3 matches (2 EA, 1 RD, accepted at all 3), and 2 reaches (waiting to here this week).
We visited 3 other safeties that my kid did NOT like, so didn’t apply to. I asked for verbal confirmation several times from my child “would you be happy at these 2 schools if you don’t get in anywhere else?” Answer: yes. Why waste everyone’s time and money?
agree with @suzyQ7 . kids are applying to too many schools. Once D got in early rolling into one school which she could attend if noone else accepted her , no need for additional safties. Got into 2 targets and applied to 4 reaches, including her Dream school (still waiting). Results are
3 acceptances early on at safety /target
1 acceptance, one WL, and 1 reject at reaches. (nothing seems to be target anymore , so calling them all reaches)
will find out by Sat for the last school.
If I remember correctly, out of 19 applications my D was waitlisted at 5 schools, 4 we considered matches, and 1 considered a reach. She had 2 or 3 outright rejections, 1 match and 2 reaches. So anyhoo, one of the “match” WL was her first choice school (Bates). The whole process became overwhelming and stressful towards the end. Sure, we’ll take some of the blame for that, she did have 19 applications lol. But while she was accepted to all her safeties EA, her matches didn’t turn out to be matches in the end. She had some good choices and although she really wanted to go to her waitlisted first choice, we mutually decided that it would be better to just pick a school that WANTED HER. The school she chose was considered a low match at that time but their selectivity has increased in the past two years and I feel very comfortably saying I think she is among her academic peers and made the right choice.
Reading through College Confidential a lot this year, it seems pretty clear to me that the college admissions system is broken and needs to be repaired. There are currently lots of incentives for students to apply to numerous schools: easy to do through Common App, unpredictability of admission decisions, and financial considerations (where will student get the best deal). The large number of applications benefits no one. It’s stressful and expensive for students and their families. Colleges are getting better “numbers” and can claim greater selectivity. But it is also expensive for them and RD just becomes a real crapshoot in terms of which students will actually attend their university. Here’s a link to one page on CC that demonstrates this increase in the number of applications per student. Again, I’m not suggesting students/families are misguided or behaving badly in applying to lots of schools–they are clearly incentivized to do so–but it is causing chaos and stress in the process. How can this be fixed? Good luck to everyone going through it.
This can easily be fixed by maxing out the total apps on the Common App to 10. Also, high schools can enforce this by also no allowing recommendation for more than 10. Limiting college apps exists all over the world - but of course in the US we do everything in excess.
Also, it would be great if the common app offered (not required) the ability to select one first choice school - where colleges would know that there is high interest.
Limiting the # of apps from the common app is a good idea. There is a race going on with the whole process. A couple of years ago, I saw student applying 4-6 schools and thought that was about the max given the level of attention for the process. Nowadays, I think the average student I see is applying 8 to 12 schools. A couple of kids gone into the mid-upper teens. This behavior is insane. It is mightily apparent these kids don’t even know what they like, dislike or the culture of different schools. Yet, they are pounding the buttons for the Essays, etc. Why is this happening? It is all because of a numbers’ game. Schools acceptance rate come down, so statistically, you have to apply more to get the same degree of certainty. Then the number of apps increases and pushes down the acceptance rate further. That creates a vicious cycle of a sort. When I read college PRs about 20%, 25% increase in the number of applications over the past year, I shake my head. What that means there are 20-25% more clueless kids/parents applying to these schools and most likely will not attend even they get the acceptance. So what should the schools do? Reject more, lower the acceptance rate (and thus increase or hold the almighty rankings); and they waitlist more. Fair or not, these AOs will look at the regions, the particular high school history on yield, then they decide on A, W or D. We are seeing this WL epidemic is the result of this insane cycle of chase. That said, I doubt 2017-8 will be any better, in fact, I’d bet it will be worst. For those kids get WL, it is best to move on and assume no chance to get A to the particular school. It is what it is… that’s the fact. JMHO
It seems to me that it is going to keep getting worse. Due to this kind of result (a lot of waitlists for my kid who is currently on this ride), I feel like the younger sibling in a future year should apply to even MORE colleges than the current one has…because of the risks of so many waitlists and too few or no acceptances to matches or better. Which in turn, if others do the same and apply to even more, will make the colleges ultimately need to waitlist even more. And so on. But each side (the applicants and then the colleges) seem to be doing what is logical to protect their own interests. It’s like a cold war in some ways (ha ha).
@porcupine98 I agree with you. However, it’s unreasonable IMO to weight a visit to the school as more than .001% of any particular factor – that is extremely prejudicial to everyone who doesn’t live 500 miles or so from a school. He did attend whatever local functions these schools put on (regional counselors visiting his school, for example) & wrote them thank you notes after their visits & even stayed in touch with 1 or 2 of them by emailing various questions during the process.
I think along with limiting apps in the Common app they should also intergrate the NPC into the common app. All the data the schools use to estimate the Net Price estimate is already right there in the common app. If once the kid fills out the common app data the schools NPC could then spit out the estimate right then and there so the kid and parent could see immediately - before they hit submit - if the school is even affordable. If they can’t get the schools to agree to this then maybe just have a link to the schools NPC in the common app and require the kids to at list click and and confirm the used it and are aware of what their estimated NP will be before they hit submit.
This would hopefully prevent the majority of heartbroken kids that do get accepted to their dream schools but can afford to attend.
Students who need financial aid have to cast a wide net. Unless a school has guaranteed scholarships for specific stats or a NPC that’s up-to-date and accurate, families can’t always tell what their net cost will be.
The waitlist problem could just as easily be fixed by families adjusting their lists. If the top 50 schools get so many apps that they’re WL a large number of students, maybe that’s not the best place for your kid to apply.
I wish there were some way that a system could be instituted where the applicants rank their college preferences while the colleges rank their applicants and a match made - sort of something like it sounds like they do for medical school residency matches (which I know nothing about but have heard of) ?-- I’m thinking of this because, for example, my kid’s best friend and my kid applied to a lot of the same schools, from a very small high school, and some of the colleges they applied to are very small…such that I bet that there is some likelihood that some of those colleges would only accept ONE student from my kid’s high school per year…and what has happened is, my kid got waitlisted at some that the best friend got accepted to AND vice versa , and as luck would have it, one that my kid got waitlisted to was the top choice but the best friend got accepted but the best friend actually doesn’t want that college and likely won’t enroll (seeming like the best friend “took his spot”, lol) - AND vice versa! We have been wishing that they could trade their acceptances and waitlists with each other!
Maybe college admissions should be a two step process. Step 1, candidates present their Common App plus a brief statement on why they are interested in that college. Then the college can ask only the strongest, most competitive candidates to submit supplemental essays and LORs for the holistic review round, and flat out reject the others. This way kids with no chance aren’t wasting their time on ivy applications, and instead can focus their efforts on colleges where they have a good shot at being accepted. This would cut down on the amount rejections coming out in March.
That’s an easy conclusion to come to around here, but I think the concept of too many apps is like to the concept of too much wine: it is different for each person and best not to judge.
I see this idea floated a lot and I have no idea who it helps. It possibly limits a student’s ability to find a school he might otherwise not, and it limits the available pool for each college to choose from. And it definitely hurts those shopping for aid. So, who benefits from this idea? I have never gotten an answer on this question.
My opinion is the situation has arisen from the fact that the American student population is far more educated, prepared, and ambitious each year. That creates competition at the top. Overall this is a very good thing for our country and our kids, even though it may have momentary hurts over rejections and waitlists. Rising tides life all boats.
Well it’s even crazier. I just saw Colby has called kids off the waitlist this past week. It’s not even April. WTH.
@Postmodern I agree with you. Standards have risen tremendously. Probably most of us would not be accepted today to the universities we attended 25 years ago.
with regards to the many waitlisted UC students, I do not believe they take interest/visits in to account.
@redpoodles The admissions practices at Colby are entirely driven by rankings, to the point where I would question the values of an institution willing to engage in what I feel is deception. They have waived fees and reduced application requirements as to drive applications (which they have done). In order to remain “selective”, they admit a smaller number than needed based on historical yield, and then release the waitlist ASAP to fill the class.
Look at the changes since Colby hired their Dean of Admissions away from Stanford (where he was the head of admissions marketing and communications). The school hasn’t changed much in two years, but their numbers sure have. That’s not an accident.
Since waitlist admits don’t count as “acceptances” for selectivity rankings, they appear much more selective than they actually are. Their yield is also misstated, as they will show the number of “new” students based on “accepted” students…ignoring the impact of the waitlist.
They aren’t alone in the game, but they are definitely on the the cutting edge of reasonable. The only way to fix this is to reconcile WL releases, but the ranking folks are more interested in selling magazines than they are reconciling minutia. Look at all of the WL threads here…when you pay big money to admissions deans, they are going to find ways to justify their salaries. Meanwhile, classes get bigger and tenured professors fade away. It’s a dirty business…education.
@EyeVeee Wow. Speechless.
@redpoodles I found the post you mentioned about a student already being taken off WL at Colby. Am I being cynical? or is this a VERY underhand attempt to manipulate the acceptance rate even lower? So have a “waitlist” of students they actually want to admit, but not admit them on official notification day? Hmmm, this is very interesting.