<p>My son took the SAT in June and got a 1970. (670v, 640m, 660W) His GPA is 93.5 weighted. His gpa junior year was a 95.6 with an upward trend. His ranking is top 15-20%. Typical ECs, 200 hours community service, (ran a school-supply drive) works 20 hours week, 3 years X-C, a business internship this summer, key-club. I feel Wake is a reach, he says more of a match. Opinions would be appreciated!</p>
<p>I'd say it's a reachy match or a matchy reach. :)
His test scores are right in the middle of Wake's enrolled students but 65% of Wake acceptees rank in the top 10%. His chances improve a bit if he has taken a strong high school curriculum including AP and honors classes and 4 years of math, science, foreign language.</p>
<p>Thanks. He will have taken 8 honors, 5 Aps (school offers 10) and 2 college classes. Math classes were not honors. (except geometry) 4 years of spanish. Thanks again!</p>
<p>He has a good shot, but I'd still split the difference and call it a reachy match, if only because their admissions stats are below 50%. Good luck to your son!</p>
<p>carolyn, I'm still one of the the most conservative prognosticators on the board and I'm about to live up to my rep. LOL. </p>
<p>Wake is just another example of what you and other sages have been telling us-the bar is going up very fast. Very fast indeed. The April 14, 2005 edition of an online Wake rag says that the apps rose 18% in just one year. Selectivity is now right at 40% accepted. 77% of Wake's newly enrolled students have class rank in the top decile. SAT averages are up from 1315 to 1381 IN ONE YEAR.:eek: I would probably say this is a realistic reach. <a href="http://ogb.wfu.edu/?id=2313_0_9_0_C%5B/url%5D">http://ogb.wfu.edu/?id=2313_0_9_0_C</a></p>
<p>I have to say that Wake is a reach for your son, and you need to get into the data to show him this. My S was admitted this year but chose another school, and neither he nor a good friend with excellent test scores and ECs (including an 800 verbal) made the cut for merit money at Wake. We see that our kids were in the top quartile but not standouts in their admits enuf to attract merit $.<br>
Here is my advice: Does your son really want a school of Wake's caliber? He has to wake up and put out the effort in this Game called admissions (and it is a game) since he is a solid prospect but you can't be sure of anything re admission. He has to realize he is not a shoe-in. If he does really want a school like Wake, he will buy the Real SATs and do several practice runs this summer and force himself to do his best one last time. It is a pain, but he might find another hundred points. Also my son studied for the SATII exams and the preparation hugely paid off..they are not that bad to prep for either. You just have to do that practice exam and get a notion of pacing yourself.
My son significantly improved his test scores the fall of senior year when his motivation was suddenly crystal clear. All your son really needs is some improvement. They do admit kids with his profile regardless and his employment history is impressive.<br>
Wake Forest, by the way, deserves its rep as Work Forest. The effort to prep for the SAT is nothing compared to what it takes to stay afloat in a school committed to No Grade Inflation. Wake is a school where As are elusive and Bs require effort. Grad schools know this. Wake attaches an explanation of their grades to transcripts.<br>
I hope this year brings open doors to places he wants to be!</p>
<p>I agree with Faline. Wake is getting tougher and tougher. My daughter was interested, and she was told flat-out by a relative who works in admissions that she would not be competitive for a merit scholarship with national humanities awards, a 4.0 unweighted average and a 1520 SAT (800 verbal). She did not apply, and chose instead to concentrate on other schools where merit was a possiblility. She ended up at UChicago and loves it there.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, That is the SAT's of accepted students, I asked about this in the guidance office during my son's interview, the average of enrolled students is 1340. last years acceptance rate was ~35%.
Thanks for all of the responses!</p>
<p>I have to agree with Curmudgeon. I try to be very conservative, and would consider Wake a reach -- not a lottery pick reach, but definitely a reach. FWIW, my S is a rising Junior with similar stats (though fewer EC's) and while Wake is on his big list, I'm definitely considering it a reach right now. With a 40% admit rate, I would consider it a reach for all but the very highly qualified (well over the 75% range for both SAT and GPA).</p>
<p>njmom, your son has an excellent record but we are seeing this "greater selectivity" push way past schools like Wake. The fact remains that even at the numbers you cite your son's test scores fall below the 50th percentile of enrollees at a school with a 35% acceptance rate. His class rank is in the bottom quartile of accepted applicants. It is my admittedly conservative opinion and I think a pretty good rule of thumb, that a student needs to be at the 75th percentile level of testscores and GPA and rank at a school with less than a 50 or 60% acceptance rate to have a fair chance at admission. </p>
<p>Remember, your son is not a URM, a football player, an Olsen twin , or a development admit (that you've mentioned). He is un-hooked. And what if Wake has another gain equivalent to last year's in selectivity and accepted student stats? I believe by any prudent definition Wake would have to be called be called a reach. As always , JMO. I could be wrong.</p>
<p>By all means, have him try it. I certainly would.</p>
<p>njmom:</p>
<p>Stats-wise, I concur with cur also, unless your son's working is necessary for family resources. Then, a low-income tip/hook can help offset lower test scores. Otherwise, an adcom sees a 94 gpa, which is 15-20% percentile....likely concl: grade inflation school. </p>
<p>Increase the SAT to 2100 (a magic number in my book for nearly all but HYPSM and AWS), and all of a sudden he looks like a much stronger applicant.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone for advice and information! I will put it to good use, and certainly have him look for "match" schools a bit harder!</p>
<p>Keep in mind that your son has very strong test scores in all categories including a decent grade on that SAT essay, and consider ways to reach for 50-100 more points...he looks strong enough to be the kind of kid that may learn from mistakes on practice exams. If he puts out more effort, he might get rewarded, but the reward will be admission to a school that expects a lot of effort all the time. SATII scores make a huge tipping point strategy at schools with tough admissions. Make essays count and be unique. He is going to be very wanted by several colleges. Schools that would likely give him a hard look include Dickinson, Furman, Mary Washington, St. Mary's of MD, Bucknell, Sewanee, Rhodes, Clemson and no one is saying he would not get in Wake. Make sure to visit and show specific knowledge of schools in essays...show them you are a fit. It is up to you to paint that picture and take that initiative. In a school like Wake with many qualified applicants, be persuasive.</p>
<p>If it's financially feasible to consider it, this might be a case where ED can tip the scales from a matchy reach to a match.</p>
<p>good point! agree</p>
<p>Faline, you seem very knowledgable and positive- would you mind giving more advice? I know his SAT could go up 100 points with some practice, ect. Would it be o.k. encouraging this? I sometimes wonder if a student is really exerting themsleves to get into the top tier colleges, will it be a "acedemic death sentence" once you are there? I would never want that for my son, or anyone. I would like it to be a nice match for him, where he will feel challenged, yet succeed. Thanks in advance for any advice!</p>
<p>njmom:</p>
<p>don't forget that the SAT math is Algebra I and Geometry, plus 3-5 Alg II questions; a kid could miss all of the AlgII probs, and still score high.</p>
<p>Since the CB needs to get a nomral distribution of 1.3 million kids from what is essentially Frosh math, many of the questions are what I call tricky. With a little applied logic, the immediate, obvious, answer (the trick one), is disgarded, and most problems can be solved in 15-20 seconds. Also, the curve on SAT math is brutal -- a few more correct bubbles of Frosh math, and voila, a 700+. </p>
<p>Suggest obtaining CB's new guide to the SAT and working thru a math section with solutions. Your child will likely slap his forehead, when he sees why his answer is wrong, and how easy it is to solve correctly. Also, don't miss the Xiggi method for test prep.</p>
<p>One other thougth....even if your son falls in love with and decides to attend a "safety," higher test scores could mean some merit money at that safety.....</p>
<p>Didn't read the thread after the first post, but I had almost the exact same scores as your son (690v, 620m = 1310 on old SAT like your son, w/740w) and got waitlisted. I was top 15% also (35th out of 277) and had a bit more leadership roles and everything. I almost signed a letter of intent with them my junior year for my sport, too, but I didn't, figuring Wake was a lock and I was in no problem. I wanted to see where else I could get in (I was considering Georgetown, Davidson, and Tulane also at the time, though Wake was my top choice) instead of committing myself to one school before exploring around.
Turns out what I thought was my sure-fire match (I even thought it might have been a safety(!) stupid me) ended up waitlisting and ultimately rejecting me despite everything. I ended up losing contact with the coach of my sport (he got fired at the beginning of my senior year) and that pretty much screwed my chances. They found someone else to take my spot on the team who had a little better stats than I did and I had no chance.
Needless to say, I don't know Wake is looking for anymore. I really honestly believed that with a 1310 and my sports hook I was in no sweat, but apparently they're looking for more than just that.</p>
<p>Ecliptica--hope you will begin next year somewhere that is grand anyway. Too bad they courted you and then had a changing of the guard. But hey,
Wake isn't perfect either! Many roads to Nirvana, yes? Hope your freshman year is golden.<br>
But it is best to have realistic attitudes. Since I live in an adjoining state, I get the chance to meet and interact with neighbors who have kids at Wake, so it is easier for me to get an accurate view of the difficulty of admissions and survival once you live there.<br>
NJMom, you are like many of us who want their kids to push themselves to achieve and learn in this window of opportunity (18-22) but also want their kid to be in a setting where their mental health and emotional balance is also a match. The kids I know at Wake: typical super-responsible boys, all with professional goals that were pretty clear from the get-go, one was a valedictorian now majoring in their rigorous but famous accounting program...and they work them. He has fun, but he studies a lot,that is why they pass the big accting exam in higher proportions compared to other colleges. He told my S that he studied all day every Sunday and played on Saturday, but the whole school hits the books again Sunday. And weekdays were mostly work. That is the bargain you make if you are admitted, and you must have enough self confidence to deal with poorer GPAs than in high school. Then the real work begins. Another neighbor was a very hard working fellow, who had grit and flunked a science course at Wake right off the bat and had to go to a local university in the summer after freshman year to make it up. He got back on that horse and has applied to med schools now and will definitely make it to med school. Great kid who has made many dear friends there and has no regrets. But Wake is hard work. What do you get for that money and time? Teachers who know you by name, and small classrooms and labs, a student body that seems physically fit and active, school sports spiritedness, not just for basketball either. I personally like schools the size of Wake Forest and the LACs. However, if you have a kid who doesn't quite "get" yet that he needs to nail two SAT IIs and work on math problems this summer, he might not enjoy Wake once he got there.<br>
NJMom, feel free to PM me if you like sometime. I am happy to share more that way. good luck hunting for the right place for your son with him</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ecliptica--hope you will begin next year somewhere that is grand anyway. Too bad they courted you and then had a changing of the guard. But hey,
Wake isn't perfect either! Many roads to Nirvana, yes? Hope your freshman year is golden.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thanks for the support, Faline :)
Also, I mentioned that Wake was my first choice my junior year. Things change a lot, I thought that no doubt I wanted to go to Wake, but when I looked and explored the other schools on my (short) list (G-Town, Davidson, Tulane) I found those great unique things in them that I also saw in Wake. My point is that even if he really loves Wake Forest, I urge him to try to find other schools "just in case".
When it all came down to it, I didn't really care where I ended up, I knew I would have a good time wherever I went.</p>