I hear you. That makes sense to me.
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From a sports oriented studentās perspective, I look no further than S who was fairly typical at Wake. Heās always played sports and loves following sports (continues to do both as a working professional). Heās really smart and a hard worker. After evaluating his college options, his final decision came down to Wake and W&M. Academically equal but totally different feel. The primary reasons he chose Wake (beyond academics) was because of ACC sports and the overall active student body. Highly academic college but with a real sports feel (with many kids playing multiple sports in HS or at least one at a pretty high level). He participated in plenty of academic and career oriented activities, but when heās away from that he prefers to be playing or watching sports in a fun environment. Wake has that. Itās not Bama for sure, but itās also not D3 or Patriot League sports. He wanted stadiums, not bleachers.
Ironically he missed the BB game where Wake beat Duke (I think 2 yrs ago) in overtime and the students stormed the floor. He was studying or working on a project. He did take a few minutes to join the thousand+ kids on the quad to chant and celebrate. Thatās the difference between a sports conscious student body with tons of school pride vs. one that doesnāt pay much attention. Donāt get me wrong, he liked W&M a bunch. Thought it was great. But it couldnāt compare for a kid who wanted that sports environment.
On the Bschool front (or any of the tracks) - the outcomes for his group have been great.
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Agreed. This and @Sweetgum 's point clarified how weāre to be looking at it. Totally agree with all of you and the contrast with, say, Ivy League or Patriot League makes the point. No doubt it is an altogether experience to follow a program which can be on the court / field with the bigs than the other, which is clearly a tier down.
Huh? Check your own info. 
Total revenue:
- Big Ten $768.9 million
- SEC: $728.9 million
- Pac-12: $533.8 million
- ACC: $496.7 million
- Big 12: $409.2 million
School payouts
- Big Ten: $54.3 million
- SEC: $45.5 million
- Big 12: $37 to $40.5 million
- Pac-12: $33.6 million
- ACC: $30.9 to $37 million
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I donāt doubt that ACC sports are a draw at WF, but the debate arrives around what we/anyone calls āelite athletics.ā I think itās defined by how many 3, 4 and 5 star recruits come (matriculate) to campus.
Yes, yes, yes. Such a great example of defining privilege in a tangible way. Privilege is far less about what you DO have or get. Itās far more about what you DONāT have to overcome or plan for.
My kids donāt have a lot of stuff. But they also will have no student debt. Their phones are each a few years old. But they donāt have to pay the bills for those phones. They both went āfarā away to school. And they donāt have to think about how they will get home or how often.
They have friends who have to think about, plan for and overcome all of that. My kids are starting on 3rd base. Itās our job to help them understand that itās not because they hit a triple.
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Yes yes yes yes! As a non-wealthy student at a school chock full of wealthy students, your comment resonates in so many ways. I also think clothing is a big way to discern wealth ā a Canada Goose parka or Golden Goose or Veja sneakers might be unshowy and normal to wealthy students, but they are clear markers of wealth to non-rich students. Or even when students say āIām middle class so I donāt get any financial aid here!ā Yes, Iām sure āmiddle-classā students have parents willing to shell out $75k/year for their college educations.
Even just tiny little details like mentioning a high school classmate who also goes to our college (vast majority of middle/low-income kids in the US go to public schools where itās rare for anyone to come to an elite school), not having a job on campus, or mentioning eating out regularly (even at cheap restaurants) is a shocker for me. Ironically, I find that generosity has an inverse correlation to student wealth ā the wealthier the student, the more likely they are to Venmo charge me for the $2 pizza they got me. Which is interesting, since as a non-wealthy student I never charge for anything less than $10 for my friends.
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Defining by 3, 4, and 5 star athletes is a narrow view. Basically only relevant for Football and Basketball.
Do a little research? How about graduating from there, having a current student there, and 13 members of the family that attended, including a varsity athlete. I think I am qualified.
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Those are the only two relevant sports, since theyāre profitable and bring the largest TV and in-person audiences. The remaining sports are just a diversion before and after the football and basketball seasons. 
Seriously, I meant it in the broader sense. Itās all about TALENT! For example, in soccer, hockey, gymnastics, rowing, etc., how many youth national/Olympic pool/level players (U17, U18, +/-, etc.) come to play for your school?
Iāll use Michigan hockey as a specific example, since they seem to have an embarrassment of riches. The #1 ranked Michigan hockey team has FIVE 1st round NHL draft picks on their team this year. Most Iād think would define that hockey team as āelite.ā
You might want to re-read my post. Your response is off-base. Since you need me to rub your nose in it, the āresearchā was in reference to the context of the thread. Your connections to WF are thus wholly irrelevant.
There has been more discussion since then that I think clarifies the various views that have been discussed. Try reading those before reciting your familyās history of college attendance. I still donāt know what your expert opinion is supposed to reveal relative to my post.
And biased like the rest of us, including yours truly. 
A ton of national team talent in all those āmeaninglessā sports like soccer, golf, and field hockey. Historically, little ole Wake Forest hasnāt done too bad recruiting in basketball either. Quite a few NBA All-stars.
Not off base when I responded to your post in chronological order. You clearly have already made up your mind about the school, which is fine.
Guilty 
Like Dickie Hemric? 
Iāll just quote myself from above. Of course, as I said, just my definition of āelite athletics.ā And Iāll step off this ābus rideā now. 
Hey there Demon Deacon, itās not going to hurt you to meet me half way and just acknowledge that about 4 or 5 of us were talking past each other. I thought @Sweetgum 's point was helpful: many students are attracted to ACC-level sports (as opposed to students who want to go to Alabama and Florida and watch their school compete (successfully) at the highest level in the big TV and revenue sports. Just a different take.
Nobody, including me, is surprised to read that WF excels in a few sports. The OP was talking about FB games and two or three of us took it as a complaint about big-time sports, which is not WFās historical strength, current start at 6-0 notwithstanding. Even in menās BB, a sport the average person assumes WF excels in, you have one final 4 and that was in 1962.
Iāve not made up my mind about anything. The facts on which I focused are ā¦ facts. Make your case or close it. Getting your feelings bent out of shape is getting us nowhere.
This has devolved into one of the most meaningless threads ever on CC. I feel like weāre in a college basketball forum where an opposing teamās fans drop in to stir things up before a game.
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Agreed. We jumped the shark a while ago and I participated.
Great school, beautiful campus, ACC athletics ā¦ itās all there for people to evaluate for themselves.
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So their child/student seems engaged, adjusted, having a good time, and getting a great education.
Mom and dad are not happy. Ok, got it.
Isnāt college great?! You hopefully find a community that you like, and that likes you. You find friends and common ground with people you may never have otherwise known. And importantly, you get to branch out from your parents and be your own person. Sometimes that person doesnāt share the same views and perspectives as the parent. So it goes. Clearly WFU is doing something right for the child. (PS I am not connected in any way with WFU. Wanted my kid to consider it. He did for 10 seconds then moved on).
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