Colgate might not be diverse but most kids are not showy about any wealth or conservative politically like many at WFU. Our D is a freshman at Colgate and we visited WFU when doing the college search. Had a wonderful tour guide and academics are strong there of course but, after talking with more students and following different WFU instagram accounts, D decided the social life there wasn’t for her. In fact, she ruled out U Richmond too for the same reasons.
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If you want to go into law or business, I cannot think of a better school, assuming you could not get into Duke or UNC. The 'ole boys network is always worth a few extra $$$.
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Let’s not forget the historical success of Field Hockey, Men’s & Women’s Soccer, both Golf teams. There are multiple National Championships represented. Maybe do some research before making a patently false statement about Wake’s athletics.
I bet you are a lot of fun at parties. 
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The athletics aspect of WFU makes it a real outlier among smaller schools. The secret to the football team’s relative sucess is that Coach Clawson takes lower ranked recruiting classes, redshirts players, and let’s them develop while they earn multiple degrees. 20 starters returned this year, for example. This will be their sixth consecutive year of bowl eligibility in football. Duke has NC Central reciprocation for athletes, Vanderbilt has Peabody, and so forth and so on. Wake has nothing like that so they recruit pretty good students that are below the radar a little, and develop them as players and students. It’s a virtuous cycle, and provides the student body with an athletic experience that’s different from any other comparable school. They’re not Alabama for sure, but Wake students love the diversion from academics.
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Oh, come on now. Lighten up. I already said the point was well taken on the other sports and acknowledged that Wake has a good bb tradition right out of the gate…
Why don’t you do a little research and read the whole thread to get a little context, which was the assertion that the students lack school spirit as evidenced by (says she) the fact that students are more interested in the tailgates than actually attending the football games. See below:
So, while it was an admitted oversight on my part to not include such high visibility sports as Field Hockey, Men’s & Women’s Soccer, and both Golf teams, the point I was trying to convey in the context of “school spirit” is that WF is not Alabama and sports isn’t their lead attraction - nobody goes to WF to be near elite athletics. It’s an academic draw. Now, if you want to start a new debate about the importance of the non-revenue sports, I’m not your huckleberry.
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Agree that there are cultural differences between Southern schools & Northeastern schools. Conservative is a relative standard. Different standard between the two regions.
Whether or not Colgate University students “show” their wealth:
■■■■■■■■■/colleges/colgate-university/reviews/describe-the-students-at-your-school
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Often, I think there is a misunderstand/disconnect between upper-middle-class (and wealthier) students/families and low-income students/families as to what constitutes “showing wealth”.
I think many higher-income families and students look at it from two angles that they feel prove they are not themselves engaging in showy displays of wealth.
1)They compare their situations to people they know who have and/or seem showier in their displays of wealthy. The thrice divorced uncle who vacations in Europe 6 times a year, drives a $150K car, and throws $20K birthday parties for his kids - or the family down the street who concurrently had separate nannies for their two children, who sent their children to the most elite private school in the area, who bought their children $50K automobiles for their 16th birthdays, etc. Then the families say “we don’t do that, so we can’t be considered showy.”
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They consider themselves to be spendthrifts. They don’t indulge in more expensive cars, vacations, clothing, vacation homes, etc, though they feel they could easily afford it.
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They saved diligently for their children’s educations, have hundreds of thousands of dollars in 501 plans, and feel they sacrificed dearly to accomplish that when they could have instead spent more money on enhancing their lifestyles.
OTOH, low-income students/families’ idea of indications of wealth are not nearly so high.
A) When students talk about what they did for the summer, four mention extended vacations out of the country, multiple shorter trips all over America, working for a family member or friend of family and earning $5K over the summer for “spending money at school,” repeated trips to the family vacation home, even if it was bequeathed to the parents instead of purchased by parents - other students mention working at Wal-Mart, going to grandparents for a visit and to help out, or nothing other than staying at home and visiting friends in/near their hometown.
B) Going out to eat often and never complaining about money, versus those who never eat off campus because it’s simply out of the question financially. Having a recent model “inexpensive” Civic/VW/Toyota in the $15K-25K range, versus no vehicle or at best a 15 year old clunker.
C) Buying multiple new winter coats/shoes/boots yearly, new suits/outfits for school presentations, going thousands of miles away for spring break, flying to NYC/LA/Dallas/etc to join up with family vacationing in that area over fall break.
D) Owning any recent model Apple computer instead of a similarly performing PC that would have cost half the money. 
I laugh at this, but it is mostly a true (though sometimes imperfect) way of identifying SES on campus.
To a low income (or even lower-middle class) student A, B, C & D are blatant examples of wealth. The students indulging in A, B and C may not feel that way because that is simply life as they’ve always known it. The parents of the students with those lifestyles likewise may not realize that simply living life as a 9percenter makes it almost impossible to “hide” one’s wealth from someone two or more rungs down on the SES scale.
This is not to say that the students/families fortunate enough to be in that situation are doing anything wrong. It’s just that to students who come from families on the lower end, those better-off students are engaging in conspicuous displays of wealth simply by living their normal lives.
As I said, there’s a basic disconnect there in what it means to be financially well-off and what constitutes obvious signs of that wealth.
Thus, all private universities are going to be chock full of students whose wealth is instantly noticeable to the Pell Grant (and in general all lower-middle class) students on campus.
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Excellent post. This reminds me of a Seattle meeting with Michael Roth, President of Wesleyan, with “Friends of Wes.”
He was relaying an experience of hosting a bunch of students on full support for a dinner. They were talking about their experience at the school, and all were happy. But they all expressed that they still felt different for a variety of the reasons you described. They also made a point of relaying that one of the big items was the ability to fly home for Thanksgiving break. Their “wealthy” counterparts could do that, according to these students (btw, we never flew any of ours home across the country for Thanksgiving - they always stayed with friends), and that made them feel like “other”. He said to us that he said to them, “Ok, I can fund plane tickets home for TG for everyone, but then one of you isn’t here at all if I do.”
Roth can be a polarizing figure because he is not afraid to talk and, contrary to popular belief, he is not a pure PC liberal. His “Safe Enough Spaces” book and thoughts are, in my view, moderate and what we ought to be thinking about in terms of how we discuss diverse political beliefs in college. And his response to these students is, I think, on the mark. That is, even schools with means are never going to be able to make all students feel the same on campus. You’re going to attend school with kids who “summer” in the Hamptons, who tour Europe for two months in the summer, who ski in Vail, etc. etc. The school can’t fix all those problems, and there is among some students an expectation that they can.
Some of this is regional culture. Seattle has a ethos of hiding one’s wealth … people with serious money here are almost embarrassed about it, and there are A LOT of very wealthy people. Bill Gates built his house into a hillside, and if you can get your boat near enough to the shoreline, you still can’t really make it out all that well.
In the south, having $$ is ok and there is a tolerance with flaunting it. In Miami, not “the south” south, but still not the north, the word “ostentatious” almost doesn’t exist in the vocabulary. These are massive generalizations of course.
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I think that is factually incorrect. I’m a native NC-er. Not a fan of Wake Forest — I’m a UNC person, Tar Heel born and Tar Heel bred and all that — but people absolutely do go to Wake for elite athletics.
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Basketball comes to mind – although certainly not recently.
@EconPop wrote: “…better-off students are engaging in conspicuous displays of wealth simply by living their normal lives.”
Accurate and insightful observation expressed in a non-judgmental manner.
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Someone would have to define “elite athletics.” We have difficulty here on CC just defining elite academics. 
Just being a P5 D1 player is impressive to me, but in the final Director’s Cup ranking of 2018-2019, the last pre-pandemic year of competition, WF finished ranked #36. Is that “elite”? 
I’d don’t know if it’s “elite” or not, but kids absolutely do go there because they want to go to big time ACC athletic events and want to cheer on their teams.
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I don’t think multiple championship is the bar. To me, the bar is if a team’s games are broadcast on national (or even semi-national) television 3 or more times a year, that is a team in an elite conference. Basically, every team in the Power5 is automatically elite, from Alabama to WFU. They all share in the elite payments from their Conferences’ television contracts, which allows them all to build elite stadiums, training facilities, and living quarters for their student-athletes.
What WFU’s elite athletic status allows them to do is on a much higher level than what Lehigh can do. Although for all other intents and purposes the enrollment size/students/academic quality/outcomes of the two schools are virtually identical. But for athletics, the ACC is Porsche and the Patriot League is Kia.
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Way back when, my oldest decided against Wake after visiting a couple of times (on an initial admissions tour and then for an interview) for the same reason of feeling that there was too much of a display of wealth there. She ended up and UNC-CH and she’ll be the first to tell you that she did not escape the display wealth there by any means. It can be on display at public universities just as much as private universities. Wake is considerably smaller than UNC, so maybe it feels like there’s more of a concentration there. Our NC high school doesn’t send many to Wake - maybe one every 5 years (no doubt that the price tag plays a role and the fact that we have great in-state options).
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And that’s your opinion, which may be shared by many out there in the universe. We all have different definitions of “elite.” I think my definition is based on championships and talent.
I looked up the WF recruiting classes for basketball, Class of 2025 and this coming recruiting year, the Class of 2026. The classes are ranked #43 and #63 (so far), respectively. Just based on talent, both the football and basketball classes at WF, IMO, are NOT “elite.” But that’s my opinion, which no one may share. 
When talent and championships arrive on campus, then all the other stuff, such as television contracts (the ACC isn’t the SEC or B1G), training facilities, stadiums, living quarters, etc. generally follow.
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I agree with what you said. However, you included something that caught my eye.
These differences that you’re trying to make are not substantial differences to those not in that SES. For instance, what you might call “ostentatious” is virtually the same level of display in the eyes of lower SES students.
Some upper-middle class families might think driving a luxury car like a BMW or baby Mercedes is ostentatious. To a lower SES student, there is virtually no difference between a newer Subaru/Prius/CR-V and a BMW. All are equally out of reach for their SES, and equally available to the families of the students at a private university.
I’ve walked with lower-SES students on campuses. Sure, they all notice the student with the BMW or Mercedes. But they also ooh and ahh about the student with the late-model Mazda/Honda/Nissan. They stop in the hallway when they pass a dorm room with a multiple-monitor computer set-up and instantly proclaim the resident as rich.
To the lower SES student viewing two upper-income homes, it’s not whether there is a $100K vehicle or $50K vehicle in the driveway. It’s the neighborhood where the driveway is located. Two different students - one might wear Polo and the other might wear thrift store finds - both have the same SES lifestyle. It’s not the outward appearance that matters - it’s the general lifestyle. And to a lower SES student, both the latte-sipping BMW-driving Polo kid and the granola-munching Vans wearing Suburu-driving kid are wealthy.
“Ostentatious” is a differentiation the well-off make among themselves. It is not a significant differentiator for all wealthy people in the eyes of most lower SES people.
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The ACC brings in more money than the B1G. You might want to check your info. Big Ten led all Power Five conferences in revenue for 2020 fiscal year
And Wake Forest being part of the ACC absolutely is a big draw for many kids.
My credentials for saying this are I am born-n-raised in NC watching ACC sports. Been to quite a few Wake vs UNC games back in the day. I know several Wake grads and a Wake prof, too. I am not a Wake Forest fan, though, so don’t get the wrong idea that I am defending them on that basis and it’s way to businessy feeling for my D22 so never got on her list at all.
We should at least define what we’re talking about. Are we talking about individual athletic recruits who may be attracted to … the golf team? Or are we operating within the context of this thread, which is athletics that draws students to the school generally? For that point, I think of schools like Florida, which has reached the top of the mountain in the revenue sports that attracts people to the school. Florida is great in other sports, too, but that’s not what brings people around (other than athletic recruits to those other sports). CFB playoffs, March madness …
Or are you talking Director/Lear/Sears Cup standings?
Edit: I saw your other post and understand what you are saying. Yes, being a charter member of the ACC means you’re going to watch your team play against some of the nation’s elite programs. You’re going to watch Duke and UNC bb and Miami, FSU and Clemson fb, along with many other fine programs in those two sports as well as baseball, etc. I see your point.
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