All great info here. Thank you all. One minor question about the social scene (maybe two questions)…I’ve read twice now about using Uber to get to parties. Are these parties not on campus (i.e. fraternity houses)? And I understand Greek life is substantial…Will my D18 have a social life if not Greek?
@greatcollegefit the fraternities do not have large what I would consider traditional fraternity houses. They have multiple smaller houses In the residential neighborhoods just off campus (up to 1 mile?). Because the on campus housing and academic buildings are basically in the center of a campus, that is set back from main (busy) roads on all sides in an estate like setting, students usually Uber to and from parties rather than walk a mile or so. walking to a party could take 30 minutes, ubering only 5 minutes.
I’m still trying to understand the social scene. Can I ask a few more questions?
During our tour, we were told there were no Greek houses at all, but that many Greek organizations had a designated “space” (patio, etc.) on campus. Is this not true? Not sure I understand these “smaller multiple houses” referenced above… Are they official Greek houses or just off-campus rentals inhabited by a group of kids from the same fraternity??
On a related note, we were also told that students must live on-campus for 3 years, so really only seniors would be off-campus. How does that work with the “smaller fraternity houses” referenced above – just seniors living there? And I would assume the on-campus housing requirement cuts down on the number of house parties in general (fraternity or otherwise). If this is true, where do students, particularly freshman, find themselves hanging out?
Thanks!
@aewlmom the Greek organizations have their own lounges on campus, mostly on the bottom floor of dorms. They can hang out there to study, socialize, etc. There are no official Greek houses off campus, they are off campus rentals inhabited by a group of kids from the same fraternity as you said.
Yes, students must live in campus housing for 3 years, time abroad is counted towards the 3 years. It’s not necessarily only seniors living in off campus rentals. It is possible to get a waiver for having to live in campus housing. There is no shortage of house parties, fraternity, sports team, or otherwise, there are multiple Thurs-Sat nights. Freshman males and females attend house parties. If students are not into that kind of party they hang out with friends, club friends, team friends.
Hope this helps.
@aewlmom UGG20203 describes it well. The Greek houses off campus are not Greek Fraternity Houses the way you would picture a “frat row” from the movies or many other colleges. They are just small houses in a residential area that are occupied by a few members of the same frat. They may have more than one close by.
Although waivers are possible, essentially Freshmen - Juniors (Greek and Non Greek) live on campus. The Greeks generally cluster together in a dorm so a wing of the dorm is essentially a Greek area. Not all Greeks can fit in that space (or don’t get pulled in for whatever reason - were studying abroad or something) and they get placed with other Non Greeks. S (non Greek) had aGreek roomate 2nd semester sophmore yr and it worked out great. They are now friends. S’ first semester roomate spent 2nd semester abroad creating a space filled by a returning study abroad student who happened to be Greek).
There are a lot of activiites at Wake. Greek or Non Greek, you can have a blast. S is not Greek and doesn’t regret that at all. He has plenty of friends and socializes with lots of groups. That said, Wake does have a vibrandt Greek life it that’s your thing.
My 2 cents.
Son is first year.
There is more of a fight to get the education you want/need than there should be for an expensive highly ranked university.
E.G.,
A premed friend couldn’t get into inorganic chemistry as a freshman—classes were full.
The very popular Barcelona study abroad program is very hard to get into bc many wish to be there.
The aforementioned business major less than full acceptance.
Sororities more than fraternities can be challenging to get into.
I also hear about the repetitive food service (but isn’t this generation full of picky eaters, LOL).
OTOH,
Class sizes are small
Professor really are interested in students’ needs
Learning is valued.
@“compassionateparent&&&” thanks for the honest feedback. I’ve heard that sorority info more than once now. It’s a little odd that a student couldn’t get into the chem class. Maybe it’s not a freshman level class? Maybe that’s why he couldn’t get in? Not that that is a good excuse but maybe sophomores were prioritized.
Can you explain your comment about the business major?
re the Barcelona study abroad program, pretty sure that program is geared specifically for business majors. S attended last semester (was a fantastic experience). He explained to me that it was essentially the only study abroad semester he could attend based on his class schedule, what would count for required courses within major, etc.
The business school has an in depth core curriculum (in addition to the university divisional reqs). Total course load is either side of 20 classes based on major (per the bulletin - class catalog). So it essentially takes the full junior and senior yr to complete. A little wiggle room because the prereqs are included in the list and were knocked out in the first two yrs (I think S did 5 classes prior to officially be in the b school). Advisor met with S to map out the rest of his class sequence to ensure he could fit it all in (also doing a Poltiics minor - took an international politics class while abroad). There were 100+ kids in the Barca program, with the vast majority being B school students all trying to fit it in to their schedule.
There are many study abroad programs at Wake. While S was in Barca, many of his friends (non B school kids) were in other locations (another spot in Spain, Italy, England, Austrailia, etc. - they actually met up on several weekend trips.) There were also some non B school Wake kids in Barca that were part of a different school’s program - don’t really know how that works other than they get approval for course credit prior to the journey.
The B school reports it has something like a 60% study abroad attendance rate. I think that includes summer programs as well (much easier to accomodate class schedules).
One unfortunate side effect of small class size is that sections fill up quickly. Upperclass students are given priority, so freshmen sometimes get shut out of their top choices.
Regarding study abroad, D is a double major, one of them being Business Enterprise Management. She met with her business advisor and was able to map out a plan that allowed her to participate in a study abroad program last semester concentrating in her other major. She took two online courses through WFU last summer and will be able to graduate in four years. An interesting aside: those online courses both had around ten students in them, so evidently small class size carries over into the online realm.
What is it about Wake Forest that creates so much divisiveness? (culture, pre-professionalism, conservativeness, location?) It’s either families love it or hate it?
@socaldad2002 That’s probably the case at every college in America. From what I hear I believe most of the kids love it, but no school is for everyone.
I feel like the negative reviews are sometimes unrealistic on these Wake threads. Lots of gripe about not getting into classes or not getting enough help at the career center (especially if the student is not a business major). The truth is that, at most schools, kids don’t get their first choice of classes every semester. And with small classes, kids in that major and upperclassmen have to be prioritized. And yes it’s expensive but that doesn’t mean the student will have every single opportunity that is listed on their website. Just like most top schools, kids have to get out there and compete for the more coveted opportunities.
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@socaldad2002 I don’t think it’s so much a love it or hate it thing, but rather a very vocal alumni / family related support group that get a bit territorial. I’ve actually seen that work quite favorably in the job search area where alumni are extremely helpful and eager to connect with current students. From that aspect, the school punches above it’s weight.
On the hate it side (and perhaps some do), I think it’s more of a “not for me” than an actual hatred. Can’t imagine why anyone would hate any school. Not for you (generically), move on or just focus on academics.
On these WFU threads, I try to offer an objective viewpoint based on a combination of anecdotal experiences of S, his friends, and whatever interaction we have with administration ANDwebsite based information (Outcomes, requirements, opportunities, etc.)
No school is perfect. In Wake’s case I wish it was much closer to Charlotte or Raleigh. WS / Greensboro are part of the Triad area (not to be confused with the amazing Triangle Research Area of Raleigh - Durham) which is going through a transition from manufacturing and tobacco toward tech and healthcare but is not a booming area (yet). Surprised to see how many kids find employment in DC, NYC, Boston, TX. I’m sure much of that is due to their origin, but there is a healthy alumni pool that actively seeks recruitment. Silicon Valley is getting more attention as they have more tech treks out west. Of ocurse plenty in Charlotte and Atlanta but you would expect that.
Like anything else, it’s not for everyone but does offer a tremendous college experience for many.
@rickle1 I agree that the location is a bit challenging. I’m curious t see it for ourselves when we visit in March. I can’t quite grasp it without seeing it in person.
@homerdog Curious to get your take. Downtown WS is a pretty cool place. Not a big city, but bigger than a town. Lots of cool restaurants, pubs, etc. Has an arty edge to it (UNCSA - one of the best acting and film schools in the country is just off downtown and is quite active in the theater community). S, unfortunately in my opinion, doesn’t take advantage of downtown that often. Wish he had classes at Downtown Wake so it would force him to go frequently (pretty awesome new facility and part of the revitalization efforts to downtown). Only 10 minutes away with free shuttle. Without going downtown, they are prety much in a campus bubble - similar to URichmond and, actually, a lot of schools. Of course friends have cars and they get off campus whenever they need to make a target run, change of scenery, etc. Pretty active Outdoor Pursuits group and the mountains are only 30 minutes away. S did a weekend trip hiking the Apalachian Trail last yr so all that’s not just possible, but treadily available for those who seek it.
Unlike urban schools in big cities (Think BU, NYU), they don’t have the whole world at their fingertips. They also don’t have UNC’s Franklin Street right off campus.
FWIW @rickle1 's description was our impression after visiting. And it’s not an uncommon or undesirable college geographic setup…campus its own area with maybe just a few shops/food walkable, small town nearby driveable or by shuttle, bigger cities within an hour or two.
I also don’t think that WF has any more divisive reviews than any other school of its stature. It seems to me its “work hard, play hard” reputation fits quite well, and for many kids this is a great fit, and for many its not. My son was in the latter camp but this is nothing negative or divisive about WF; it’s a matter of personality, social preferences, culture. Maybe, more than some others of its size, WF’s culture and identity is just more evident than others.
^ inciteful comment. S would say he knows lots of WFU students who are indeed “work hard / play hard”. He also knows many that are work hard / work hard (as in they don’t drink or go to many parties). Doesn’t know anyone that’s play hard / play hard. They all pretty much work hard and academics across the board are quite rigorous but manageable. I would describe the overall student body as very intelligent and motivated.
One of the biggest negatives about Wake is the absolute control that the Greek system has on everything there. Male Freshmen need to get on lists quickly in fall semester to get entrance into meeting brothers. If you don’t know kids from your hometown already or from club sports or other activities (you must get to know Greek sophomores) then getting a bid is very hard. It’s all pretty much decided by December of fall semester (even though official rush is said to occur in spring). Many of the frats are typecast and even though there are 11 fraternities, a few are on probation, a few lack racial diversity, others tend to be for guys deeply southern and others for the northern types. It seemed like all the guys I knew were drawn to the same 2 or 3 houses in the fall and it is inevitable that they can’t all get in. Many dorm floors have only 6-8 kids that don’t get bids and life is completely miserable for those guys. There is NOTHING social to do on campus spring semester if you are a guy and don’t get a frat bid. There is a very “have-and-have-not” feeling for those who don’t get chosen. I actually know a few kids who are already planning to transfer because they didn’t get bids. The intramural sports programs are ruled by the Greeks as are many of the other clubs and activities. There is even a degrading nickname given to kids that don’t get bids. Take caution in attending here if you are a quieter guy who likes to party. It’s the louder types who come into Wake knowing older kids who will End up getting bids. Those that don’t get bids are pretty unhappy and demoralized by mid-January as they are excluded from the bulk of activities, even if they did enjoy the school in the fall (when all parties are open to everyone).
Just want to offer some perspective regarding @CCTANKCC 's comments. I assume he is a student and I am just a parent, but I’ve watched my S have a very different experience than the one described above.
A little background. S is a junior at Wake and is non-Greek. He has a large group of friends, both Greek and Non-Greek, although admittedly socailizes primarily with non-Greek males and a mixture of Greek and Non-Greek females (frequently attends sorority date night functions with 3 or 4 sororities).
He came to Wake predisposed to not rushing. I would classify him as a quieter guy who likes to party but moreso with a smaller or more intimate group of friends. Not a loud knee slapper by any stretch. Like many freshmen Wake men, he got on all the lists and attended lots of open parties fall semester. His floor was very social yet divided by those who would rush and those who wouldn’t. About mid semester, he informed us he and his close knit group thought they would rush because they were concerned about not having access to parties and social gatherings in the spring. Several of them ultimately backed out (which I told him would happen - as they weren’t really committed). He was waivering, and long story short, decided not to join a frat (actually rushed and received the bid, just wasn’t for him).
So spring freshmen yr had a different feel as the frat kids were all busy pledging (basically all the time) and frat parties were definitely no longer open to everyone. However, he joined a business fraternity that had lots of social outlets, club baseball, intramural sports teams, etc. His close knit group of non-greeks grew and they found it was quite easy to have lots of fun without going to the frat parties. Kind of formed their own brotherhood if you will. They hold parties in their dorm, off campus apartments (Wake’s the kind of place where, even as a freshmen, you meet sophomores, juniors and seniors. Very campus community oriented), etc.
Fast forward to second semester junior yr - lots of friends and different groups of friends, lots of activities (going skiing next weekend with Outdoor Pursuits, Baseball schedule starts in Feb. Business Frat convention in Atlanta, sorority date nights, hanging out nights). It’s a full and fun life. He loves it.
Now I would agree it has a different feel than the Greek experience at Wake. Instead of forming a group and bouncing around to other groups, he would have had a built in group. That’s both a positive and negative in my opinion. He definitely doesn’t have access to the big frat party scene. If that’s what you want, then you really need to go Greek. He’s also found that, even for Greeks, that becomes a lot less important after sophomore yr. He’s actually had two greek roomates that he’s good friends with (his freshmen roomate - doesn’t hang with him because he’s not in the frat but they grab lunch every now and then and another kid that was randomly put in S’ room upon returning from abroad. They got along great and the kid hung out with S and his suitemates as much as he did with his frat - he was growing tired of it).
I agree that Greek life has a large presence at Wake. It’s not for everyone. It’s very possible and easy, if you make the effort (like anything else) to have a great Non- Greek experience there. I actually asked S about this over winter break as we were reflecting on his college experience. He thought it would be tough for a kid who was Non-Greek and not social (not over the top social, but willing to join clubs and be active). He has a few friends that fall into that category and mentioned “if we didn’t draw them in, not sure they’d be that happy…” I imagine that would be the case anywhere for the more introverted kids. They’d have to find there own things.
In summary I would suggest that if the idea of Greek life bothers you, don’t go to Wake, as it’s quite visible. However, if you can take it or leave it, it’s easy to have a very rewarding experience at Wake Forest. I would think the worst experience is for those who really want Greek life and unfortunately don’t receive the bid(s) they desire. For those I would just suggest as you mature through college and life, your fraternity doesn’t define you. Lots of people out there to meet.
Sorry for the long post.
Ugh. The Greek thing scares me now. We are from the Midwest. D would want to pledge but she’s not going to know anyone from home. If it’s about connections made prior to being on campus then that’s a problem. She will have recommendations from friends here who were Greek at other universities. I’m assuming she will be involved on campus from day one and be meeting upper class women who are Greek. Maybe that’s not enough these days…to be likable once on campus? Any girl parents want to comment on if a freshman needs to know other girls actually in the sororities in order to get in? I think this must be a southern Greek thing. At Big Ten schools, I believe the focus is more on actual rush and if the current sorority members think a student fits into their house. It’s not so much about the contacts you come with.